Thoughts for “no god� Aficionados

[Erexsaur]

Hi Guys,

Why have people bothered with gods through the ages? Has the field of science made God of the Bible obsolete? What’s this “God concept?� Is it not a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every one of us? As with a child for his parents, isn’t it a longing for a Superior Authority for guidance and with a handle on uncontrollable, unpredictable things such as harvests, weather, etc.? Is it not also a desire for mercy from Him that has the handle?

If not God, something will fill that vacuum and much (including {pseudo}science) is vying to steal it from God. That's why there are countless false God's throughout the ages. Did that help? Before any of you write me off as deluded, may I ask a few more questions and share comments?

For you who are determined never to serve any god at all, who or what do you serve and please by your determined effort? Nothing? Think of the widely varied, countless possible tasks your hands are capable of, many of which are very important. Shouldn’t we count it a miracle to have appendages capable of such without modifications or attachments? I only talked about our hands.

Wouldn’t we experience a far greater sense of purpose and meaning in life if we are aware of someone somewhere to be given thanks for all the good we were unable to provide for ourselves? I thought that a living hope and relationship is far greater than inanimate material hope with no relationship. If we give our thanks to Lady Luck, would she know it?

If someone loses an important bodily function because of a weather related incident, who is generally the first to receive blame? Is it Zeus? When talking about insurance, one may be talking about an “act of who?� Even though a name is not mentioned, who is generally the first to come to mind? Is it Poseidon? What about Njord?

Is there any such thing as a true atheist? I’m speaking of an individual that’s 100% convinced that God of the Bible is a non-existent, fictional character. If the answer is “yes,� then why are there paranoiac tendencies the moment that God of the Bible is mentioned? Please? Adam and Eve hid from God after the fall until God confronted them. Even though bodily death was pronounced on all of us (unto dust shalt thou return), they were given covering for their sin (Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them). That was man’s first taste of gospel grace. Is there any need to flee grace?

The laws we live by are the means by which a lawgiver governs and God is the ultimate Lawgiver that empowers earthly law officials. But if a person’s disdain toward God is perfect, he would also disdain government and all protective laws. Don’t we appreciate the many laws that protect us?

If God is guilty of genocide for judging sin saturated societies determined never to repent, to whom is He held accountable if man is a product of chance based evolution? Did evolution assign us dignity? Even if God should be considered a sinner, are we any better? Who then shall we depend on that’s sinless to deliver us from our indelible sins? Zeus? Why won’t some count abortion as genocide? Does God support slavery? Please visit,
https://answersingenesis.org/bible-ques ... t-slavery/


You guys will like the cartoon at the link below because the joke is on me. Prepare yourselves to LAFF as I run and hide with my tail between my hind legs! I laughed at myself also.
https://answersingenesis.org/media/cart ... l-weapons/
Earl

[otseng]

Moderator Action

Moved to Random Ramblings. Please review the Rules and Tips on starting a debate topic.

[H.sapiens]

Hi Guys,

Why have people bothered with gods through the ages? Has the field of science made God of the Bible obsolete? What’s this “God concept?� Is it not a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every one of us? As with a child for his parents, isn’t it a longing for a Superior Authority for guidance and with a handle on uncontrollable, unpredictable things such as harvests, weather, etc.? Is it not also a desire for mercy from Him that has the handle?

That strikes me as a singularly infantile outlook that ducks any real sense of personal responsibility.

If not God, something will fill that vacuum and much (including {pseudo}science) is vying to steal it from God. That's why there are countless false God's throughout the ages. Did that help? Before any of you write me off as deluded, may I ask a few more questions and share comments?

There have been countless false gods and no true ones. It's the old story, we are all atheists ... I am consistent in that view, you just fail to honor that which is reasonable in one case that you aberrantly, without rational evidence, find to be a special case. The bottom line is that with respect to all gods but one we are both athiests, I just carry it one god further than you do. You have no reason for this view,
save, "the bible says so."

For you who are determined never to serve any god at all, who or what do you serve and please by your determined effort? Nothing? Think of the widely varied, countless possible tasks your hands are capable of, many of which are very important. Shouldn’t we count it a miracle to have appendages capable of such without modifications or attachments? I only talked about our hands.

You make a good case for the robustness of evolution. If you are trying to make a case for a god you are just advancing a logical fallacy via an argument from ignorance.

Wouldn’t we experience a far greater sense of purpose and meaning in life if we are aware of someone somewhere to be given thanks for all the good we were unable to provide for ourselves? I thought that a living hope and relationship is far greater than inanimate material hope with no relationship. If we give our thanks to Lady Luck, would she know it?

That is the fallacy known as a false dichotomy.

If someone loses an important bodily function because of a weather related incident, who is generally the first to receive blame? Is it Zeus? When talking about insurance, one may be talking about an “act of who?� Even though a name is not mentioned, who is generally the first to come to mind? Is it Poseidon? What about Njord?

Now we move to the argument from incredulity, forgetting about all the non-Abrahamics out there. Would a Hindu be talking about your imagined deity or some other imagined deity?

Is there any such thing as a true atheist? I’m speaking of an individual that’s 100% convinced that God of the Bible is a non-existent, fictional character. If the answer is “yes,� then why are there paranoiac tendencies the moment that God of the Bible is mentioned?

Of course there are, the very question is a personal insult. There is no paranoia, just a clear understanding of what y'all have a long and bloody history of doing in the name of your gods.

Please? Adam and Eve hid from God after the fall until God confronted them. Even though bodily death was pronounced on all of us (unto dust shalt thou return), they were given covering for their sin (Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them). That was man’s first taste of gospel grace. Is there any need to flee grace?

A fairy tale with no relevance to this discussion.

The laws we live by are the means by which a lawgiver governs and God is the ultimate Lawgiver that empowers earthly law officials. But if a person’s disdain toward God is perfect, he would also disdain government and all protective laws. Don’t we appreciate the many laws that protect us?

Most of all I am protected from those like yourself that would shackle us all to some form of theocracy under the pretense of American exceptionalism.

If God is guilty of genocide for judging sin saturated societies determined never to repent, to whom is He held accountable if man is a product of chance based evolution? Did evolution assign us dignity? Even if God should be considered a sinner, are we any better? Who then shall we depend on that’s sinless to deliver us from our indelible sins? Zeus? Why won’t some count abortion as genocide? Does God support slavery? Please visit,
https://answersingenesis.org/bible-ques ... t-slavery/

You will find much better answers to such questions by looking into Evolutionarily Stable Strategies than wasting your time with the AiG website.

You guys will like the cartoon at the link below because the joke is on me. Prepare yourselves to LAFF as I run and hide with my tail between my hind legs! I laughed at myself also.
https://answersingenesis.org/media/cart ... l-weapons/
Earl

The cartoon's purpose is to pretend that both sides are in an equal starting position and that the AiG types are capable of delivering a knockout blow, even without the bad tactics that the opposition uses. At root this is a series of lies and propaganda.

[Erexsaur]

Hello H.Sapiens,

Please forgive me for the long delay. Here are answers to your statements.

Hi Guys,

Why have people bothered with gods through the ages? Has the field of science made God of the Bible obsolete? What’s this “God concept?� Is it not a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every one of us? As with a child for his parents, isn’t it a longing for a Superior Authority for guidance and with a handle on uncontrollable, unpredictable things such as harvests, weather, etc.? Is it not also a desire for mercy from Him that has the handle?

That strikes me as a singularly infantile outlook that ducks any real sense of personal responsibility.

But what if a difficult task at hand stretches the responsible person and his helpers’ abilities to the limit? I feel sorry for the person that’s unaware of the availability of supernatural help in critical situations.

If not God, something will fill that vacuum and much (including {pseudo}science) is vying to steal it from God. That's why there are countless false God's throughout the ages. Did that help? Before any of you write me off as deluded, may I ask a few more questions and share comments?

There have been countless false gods and no true ones. It's the old story, we are all atheists ... I am consistent in that view, you just fail to honor that which is reasonable in one case that you aberrantly, without rational evidence, find to be a special case. The bottom line is that with respect to all gods but one we are both athiests, I just carry it one god further than you do. You have no reason for this view,
save, "the bible says so."

My view is based that of a supernaturally regenerate life consequent of heeding the word of Him that knows all things.

Do you know 100% of everything in the universe to enable you to make your claim that God as untrue and to trust your implications that trusting the Bible is vain? As for your statement, “There have been countless false gods and no true ones,� How can you say such if there was never a true God for comparison?.

For you who are determined never to serve any god at all, who or what do you serve and please by your determined effort? Nothing? Think of the widely varied, countless possible tasks your hands are capable of, many of which are very important. Shouldn’t we count it a miracle to have appendages capable of such without modifications or attachments? I only talked about our hands.

You make a good case for the robustness of evolution. If you are trying to make a case for a god you are just advancing a logical fallacy via an argument from ignorance.

OK. Let’s try a little more of my “ignorance� and “fallacious� logic by going back to my statement about the miracle of our bodies. Super performance sports cars are not cheap. Are you able to afford my guesstimated bare minimum price tag of about $90k for such a machine? I can’t. Yet prices go into millions. In contrast, our bodies are priceless having a value that’s infinitely higher than cheap.

Hopefully, we will never go as far backward as to treat our bodies as one that gained $1 million on the cheap (at the price of a lottery ticket) only to end up $1million in debt. We appreciate our bodies too well! Has mega-year chance evolution any sense of understanding of gratitude from us for what’s priceless? Gratitude brings a special kind of peace even in the absence of peace!

Wouldn’t we experience a far greater sense of purpose and meaning in life if we are aware of someone somewhere to be given thanks for all the good we were unable to provide for ourselves? I thought that a living hope and relationship is far greater than inanimate material hope with no relationship. If we give our thanks to Lady Luck, would she know it?

That is the fallacy known as a false dichotomy.

But you understand my intended message, don’t you? I’m certainly glad that it’s not a fallacy!

If someone loses an important bodily function because of a weather related incident, who is generally the first to receive blame? Is it Zeus? When talking about insurance, one may be talking about an “act of who?� Even though a name is not mentioned, who is generally the first to come to mind? Is it Poseidon? What about Njord?

Now we move to the argument from incredulity, forgetting about all the non-Abrahamics out there. Would a Hindu be talking about your imagined deity or some other imagined deity?

Is there any such thing as a true atheist? I’m speaking of an individual that’s 100% convinced that God of the Bible is a non-existent, fictional character. If the answer is “yes,� then why are there paranoiac tendencies the moment that God of the Bible is mentioned?

Of course there are, the very question is a personal insult. There is no paranoia, just a clear understanding of what y'all have a long and bloody history of doing in the name of your gods.

Did I insult you by pointing out the fact that atheism is only professed? Have you forgotten where we were told that all the visible things around us shout invisible higher intelligence? Rational and reasonable people like you make decisions based on truth instead of error. Right? Have you forgotten the unthinkable atrocities of man? What God has to offer us is not cheap! (you heard this the umpteen millionth and the first time)

Please? Adam and Eve hid from God after the fall until God confronted them. Even though bodily death was pronounced on all of us (unto dust shalt thou return), they were given covering for their sin (Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them). That was man’s first taste of gospel grace. Is there any need to flee grace?

A fairy tale with no relevance to this discussion.

The laws we live by are the means by which a lawgiver governs and God is the ultimate Lawgiver that empowers earthly law officials. But if a person’s disdain toward God is perfect, he would also disdain government and all protective laws. Don’t we appreciate the many laws that protect us?

Most of all I am protected from those like yourself that would shackle us all to some form of the theocracy under the pretense of American exceptionalism.

Question: Is it scientifically reasonable to unconditionally dislike a certain group of people because of their stand and to accuse them of all evil only because of their stand that disagrees with your view? Does the discipline of science mandate such dislike? I ask this question with your defense at heart. I, a creationist do not dislike you.

I too must guard against taking the abundant freedom we have in America for granted. America was never meant to be a theocracy. It is a republic.

If God is guilty of genocide for judging sin saturated societies determined never to repent, to whom is He held accountable if man is a product of chance based evolution? Did evolution assign us dignity? Even if God should be considered a sinner, are we any better? Who then shall we depend on that’s sinless to deliver us from our indelible sins? Zeus? Why won’t some count abortion as genocide? Does God support slavery? Please visit,
https://answersingenesis.org/bible-ques ... t-slavery/

You will find much better answers to such questions by looking into Evolutionarily Stable Strategies than wasting your time with the AiG website.

I have much more material I would be happy to share with you from AIG and similar websites but my big problem is that I hate sharing good things with those that think they hate it.

ELD

[JP Cusick]

If not God, something will fill that vacuum and much (including {pseudo}science) is vying to steal it from God.

There is also the idolatry of "patriotism" which turns the Country into their God.

And the Political leaders making their commandments.

If we give our thanks to Lady Luck, would she know it?

Exactly.

And "Mother Nature" is another one of their names for God.

Is there any such thing as a true atheist?

I find that most people (if not all) who claim to be Atheist are really Deist who view natural and natural to be the name of their God.

They just reject openly religious institutions, without understanding that secular science is just another form of religion.

[Tcg]

Exactly.

And "Mother Nature" is another one of their names for God.

I've never met a atheists who considers "Mother Nature" to be a god. In fact, anyone who did so would not be an atheist.

I find that most people (if not all) who claim to be Atheist are really Deist who view natural and natural to be the name of their God.

If a person is a deist, then they are not an atheist.

Perhaps you can provide some examples of actual atheists who "view natural and natural to be the name of their God." You seem to be describing your view of atheists, rather than real atheists.

They just reject openly religious institutions, without understanding that secular science is just another form of religion.

Atheists lack belief in god/gods. Their response to religious institutions varies greatly.

It is impossible to give an informed response to your claim that science is a form of religion as you haven't provided any evidence to support this conclusion.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Erexsaur]

When I first read the title of this thread, I thought I'd find honest questions about atheism. For the most part, what I found instead is simply a series of claims about theism cloaked in the form of questions so as to avoid the need to support the underlying claims.

This "question" is a good example - "Is it not a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every one of us?" This question is based on an original assumption and a second which depends on the truth of the first. The first is that god exists and the second is that humans long for god.

Your first step in supporting this claim disguised as a question would be to provide evidence that god exists. The second would be to provide evidence that humans long for this god. Short of attempting that, all you're doing is dishonestly shifting the burden of supporting your two assumptions onto others.

[JP Cusick]

I've never met a atheists who considers "Mother Nature" to be a god. In fact, anyone who did so would not be an atheist.

... who "view natural and natural to be the name of their God."

... science is a form of religion...

It really does not matter what one claims or considers when they speak the words or names for a God.

If anyone says "mother nature" then that is invoking a God whether they agree or not.

The idea that their "mother nature" is not the same God called Mother Nature - is just being dishonest and untrue.

The same with just "nature" as like saying the Big-Bang was a natural occurrence, then that is giving nature a quality of a God as in nature created the heavens and the earth.

For myself I like the nature-God or the God as nature, but I am just being honest.

[H.sapiens]

I've never met a atheists who considers "Mother Nature" to be a god. In fact, anyone who did so would not be an atheist.

... who "view natural and natural to be the name of their God."

... science is a form of religion...

It really does not matter what one claims or considers when they speak the words or names for a God.

If anyone says "mother nature" then that is invoking a God whether they agree or not.

The idea that their "mother nature" is not the same God called Mother Nature - is just being dishonest and untrue.

The same with just "nature" as like saying the Big-Bang was a natural occurrence, then that is giving nature a quality of a God as in nature created the heavens and the earth.

For myself I like the nature-God or the God as nature, but I am just being honest.

Sorry but that is not real, not at all. The question of godhead depends upon the assignment of agency to the fabulously imagined creation. When I say "mother nature" it is in the sense of a folky placeholder name with no expectation of any sort of agency.

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 9 by H.sapiens]

By Cusick's logic, saying "reality exists" implies that I think reality is a god. Pure, unadulterated, sophistry.