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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:25 pm
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Why some people reject evolution

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[you can skip the intro and go right to the last paragraph]

Growing up, I was seldom interested in math. At first it seemed tedious and boring. I invented my own shortcuts to make it easier. Later it required discipline when it got too difficult to do in my head. So, i loved geometry, but lost interest after trig, which I didn't even try to understand. I've been thinking of trying to teach myself calculus, just to see if, at 69 I can do it. So, I looked for a free online course of study and found this:

As Henry Ford said, " Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs ". Too much of the world is complicated by layers of evolution. If you understand how each layer is put down then you can begin to understand the complex systems that govern our world. Charles Darwin wrote in 1859 in his On The Origin of Species,

"When we no longer look at an organic being as a savage looks at a ship, as at something wholly beyond his comprehension; when we regard every production of nature as one which had a history; when we contemplate every complex structure and instinct as the summing up of many contrivances, each useful to the possessor, nearly in the same as when we look at any great mechanical invention as the summing of the labour, the experience, the reason, and even the blunders of numerous workmen; when we thus view each organic being, how far more interesting, I speak from experience, will the study of natural history become! "
http://www.understandingcalculus.com/

So here's the question, do people not believe in evolution just because the Bible tells them so? Or is there another factor; that rather than try to understand it in small steps, one tiny transition at a time, since the entirety of the process ("microbe to man") seems impossible to them, do they reject it out of hand without looking at it step by step?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:26 pm
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So here's the question, do people not believe in evolution just because the Bible tells them so? Or is there another factor; that rather than try to understand it in small steps, one tiny transition at a time, since the entirety of the process ("microbe to man") seems impossible to them, do they reject it out of hand without looking at it step by step?


I don't know.

I have no problem in accepting evolution as a theory because it does not contradict my own ideas of GOD.
The biblical story doesn't either, but what it does do is add in the factor of an extraterrestrial/inter-dimensional species interfering with the natural processes of evolution in order to proclaim they are our 'creators' and then get us to do what they say in relation to dominating the planet.

Iffy at best.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:00 pm
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Re: Why some people reject evolution

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Danmark wrote:

So here's the question, do people not believe in evolution just because the Bible tells them so? Or is there another factor; that rather than try to understand it in small steps, one tiny transition at a time, since the entirety of the process ("microbe to man") seems impossible to them, do they reject it out of hand without looking at it step by step

Why do people not believe in one tiny transition at a time from microbe to man? Perhaps because the fossil record has no evidence of this? Think

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:46 am
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Re: Why some people reject evolution

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otseng wrote:

Danmark wrote:

So here's the question, do people not believe in evolution just because the Bible tells them so? Or is there another factor; that rather than try to understand it in small steps, one tiny transition at a time, since the entirety of the process ("microbe to man") seems impossible to them, do they reject it out of hand without looking at it step by step

Why do people not believe in one tiny transition at a time from microbe to man? Perhaps because the fossil record has no evidence of this? Think

At this point the fossil evidence is all but irrelevant, the genetic data alone is more than adequate to make the point.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:13 am
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Re: Why some people reject evolution

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otseng wrote:


Why do people not believe in one tiny transition at a time from microbe to man? Perhaps because the fossil record has no evidence of this? Think

Pretty hard to find a fossil of a microbe; however,
It may seem surprising that bacteria can leave fossils at all. However, one particular group of bacteria, the cyanobacteria or "blue-green algae," have left a fossil record that extends far back into the Precambrian - the oldest cyanobacteria-like fossils known are nearly 3.5 billion years old, among the oldest fossils currently known.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/bacteria/bacteriafr.html

AND cyanobacteria are important not only for understanding evolution, but for understanding the conditions that made life on Earth possible 4 billion years ago. No need to invoke magic or a god.
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(14)01649-2.pdf

Another classic error antievolutionists make is their insistence in some fantastically orderly, even, progression of each transition. In other words, their thinking is impaired with the idea that evolution, if it exists, must behave as if there is a grand designer.

Perhaps most important, and as a direct argument against the claim the tiny transitions don't exist, is the fact the tiniest transitions are not even noticeable, but there they are, recorded in our own bodies from one generation to the other. The record is in our DNA. Even identical twins do not share the same DNA, absolutely. From the moment their zygote first divided, mutations began which result in physical differences between 'identical' twins.
https://www.livescience.com/24694-identical-twins-not-identical.html

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:09 pm
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Re: Why some people reject evolution

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[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

Science is hard, people are lazy. Evolution seems impossible on its face until you make the effort to understand it.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:14 pm
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Re: Why some people reject evolution

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Danmark wrote:

[you can skip the intro and go right to the last paragraph]

Growing up, I was seldom interested in math. At first it seemed tedious and boring. I invented my own shortcuts to make it easier. Later it required discipline when it got too difficult to do in my head. So, i loved geometry, but lost interest after trig, which I didn't even try to understand. I've been thinking of trying to teach myself calculus, just to see if, at 69 I can do it. So, I looked for a free online course of study and found this:

As Henry Ford said, " Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs ". Too much of the world is complicated by layers of evolution. If you understand how each layer is put down then you can begin to understand the complex systems that govern our world. Charles Darwin wrote in 1859 in his On The Origin of Species,

"When we no longer look at an organic being as a savage looks at a ship, as at something wholly beyond his comprehension; when we regard every production of nature as one which had a history; when we contemplate every complex structure and instinct as the summing up of many contrivances, each useful to the possessor, nearly in the same as when we look at any great mechanical invention as the summing of the labour, the experience, the reason, and even the blunders of numerous workmen; when we thus view each organic being, how far more interesting, I speak from experience, will the study of natural history become! "
http://www.understandingcalculus.com/

So here's the question, do people not believe in evolution just because the Bible tells them so? Or is there another factor; that rather than try to understand it in small steps, one tiny transition at a time, since the entirety of the process ("microbe to man") seems impossible to them, do they reject it out of hand without looking at it step by step?


In my experience, it is because bible literalists believe it conflicts with the origin story in Genesis. And if that is wrong thus then begins the slippery slope consideration of "what else is the bible wrong about"? And that is simply not an option for some.

-all the best

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:18 pm
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Re: Why some people reject evolution

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[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]
Put simply Cognitive Dissonance. I would argue debate wont change ones view on evolution but rather enforces it. We should really be thinking on how to break their cognitive dissonance.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:18 pm
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Re: Why some people reject evolution

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[Replying to post 8 by DanieltheDragon]

Nah, that's a waste of time. It's better to break their arguments and show to the audience the intellectual bankruptcy of Creationism. And use those moments as opportunities to learn more.

Until someone shows up with an interesting argument, I don't have much reason to explore specific cases of evolutionary biology.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:49 am
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I don't see how the process of random mutation plus natural selection over time could have come up with the complexity we have.

So I would argue that I have tried to understand it in tiny steps.

Think about it in best case scenarios. A mutation has to give a survival advantage, it has to be so advantageous that during an extinction event it has to have allowed that creature to survive so that the gene would be dominant. And this has happened millions of times.

I actually think you should show a little mercy on people that find that hard to believe.

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