Is suffering to appreciate life ?

[paarsurrey1]

Please
Regards

[otseng]

Moderator Action

Please put the debate question in the OP, not just in the title.

Moved to Random Ramblings. Please review the Rules and Tips on starting a debate topic.

[JP Cusick]

Is suffering to appreciate life ?

Suffering does promote an appreciation for life, but it has also been known to promote suicides and horrible depressions and psychological problems.

My view is that suffering in this life is to prepare us for the future - for eternal life - because to live forever requires us to endure massive sorrows and extraordinary pain.

The idea of eternal life in happiness or ease or in splendor is all nonsense, as that utopia ideal can not last for eternity.

[paarsurrey1]

Is suffering to appreciate life ?

Suffering does promote an appreciation for life, but it has also been known to promote suicides and horrible depressions and psychological problems.

My view is that suffering in this life is to prepare us for the future - for eternal life - because to live forever requires us to endure massive sorrows and extraordinary pain.

The idea of eternal life in happiness or ease or in splendor is all nonsense, as that utopia ideal can not last for eternity.

Only One-True-God is Eternal, for the humans it is a relative term not like the Absolute Eternal, please.
Right, please?
Regards

[JP Cusick]

Only One-True-God is Eternal, for the humans it is a relative term not like the Absolute Eternal, please.
Right, please?
Regards

That is correct, and I was using a much less form of eternal than the absolute.

When we see God as eternal then that mean no beginning and no end.

For people to get eternal life then it means we start now and go onward forever, but we have a beginning.

My view is that God is the one who has the vast experience of eternal life, which is why God tells us what we must do for us to live eternally, and that is the point.

We are not eternal - so we must learn how to start living eternally.

[ttruscott]

Since there is no suffering without sin, to my mind it is ludicrous to believe that GOD NEEDS sin and suffering to perfect HIS creation.

HE has no need for sin and suffering for any reason as the perfection of the holy angels attest. HE allowed sin and suffering to be chosen by free will to ensure that those who did not want to live in HIS reality would be separated from all those who did chose to live in HIS reality by their free will.

ALL created in HIS image with a free will had the ability and the opportunity to fulfill HIS plan for their creation and choose to become loving and righteously holy OR to become eternally evil and corrupt and outside of HIS righteousness, HIS love and mercy forever.

IF at the time of our choice for or against HIS deity, every person created in HIS image chose to accept HIM as their GOD and to conform to HIM, the heavenly state of Marriage would have started in that instant with no need for any suffering to perfect us. Michael and Gabriel had no need to suffer to become perfect and nor would we.

It was rebellion by their free will by Satan et al against YHWH's claims to deity that brought sin and suffering into the world. Rebellion to the call for their judgement caused some of HIS elect, (those who by their free will had chosen to accept HIM as their GOD) to sin and need to be cleansed. All sinners were sent to Prison Earth to live together for the redemption of the sinful elect, the sinful good seed.

And though the use of painful discipline and suffering was a chosen method of returning HIS elect to their first free will choice from sinfulness to be holy and righteous, Heb 12:5-11 and the Satanic are punished for their crimes by much suffering pain, suffering and death are a response to evil only and so are unnecessary to GOD's plan that no evil should be chosen by HIS creation by their free will.

The GOD who is love, who is righteous and does not deviate, does not create a people as evil who must need to suffer and die to become perfect. The mind boggles at such a lack of understanding of just who YHWH is...no matter how many people share this aberration.

[JP Cusick]

Since there is no suffering without sin, to my mind it is ludicrous to believe that GOD NEEDS sin and suffering to perfect HIS creation.

You use the upper case for "needs" which violates the message.

The sins and the suffering was created and continuously sustained by sinful humanity, and thereby God uses (not need - uses) our own sins and suffering to complete the plan of salvation.

Did Jesus suffer and die on the cross because it was needed? or was that the human way of redemption?

I see it as humanity which needs (needs) the suffering for our own salvation, and God gives to us what we need.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 6 by ttruscott]

ttruscott wrote:
Since there is no suffering without sin, to my mind it is ludicrous to believe that GOD NEEDS sin and suffering to perfect HIS creation.

there is no suffering without sin

Sorry, it is a wrong expression.
While it is right that sins create sufferings, but it is wrong that every suffering is because of sins. Jesus was an innocent person, yet he had to suffer on the Cross.
When the righteous people suffer, they are endowed with blessings from the One-True-God:
[2:156] And We will try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives, and fruits; but give glad tidings to the patient,
[2:157] Who, when a misfortune overtakes them, say, ‘Surely, to Allah we belong and to Him shall we return.’
[2:158] It is these on whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy, and it is these who are rightly guided.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... &verse=155
With tribulations and sufferings, if they remain steadfast, the status of the righteous is enhanced.
Right, please?
Regards

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]

No. We can appreciate life without suffering.

Imagine you ate your first apple and enjoyed it. I don't see any reason that you would need to eat a bad apple first (or later) to enjoy the good apple or the 100th good apple.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 6 by ttruscott]

ttruscott wrote:
Since there is no suffering without sin, to my mind it is ludicrous to believe that GOD NEEDS sin and suffering to perfect HIS creation.

there is no suffering without sin

Sorry, it is a wrong expression.
While it is right that sins create sufferings, but it is wrong that every suffering is because of sins. Jesus was an innocent person, yet he had to suffer on the Cross.

Jesus was sinless and suffered and died for OUR sins, not His own....a drastically different scenario that is taken for granted that human systems do not always apply to His spiritual work.