The myth of absolute morality

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

The myth of absolute morality

Post #1

Post by Willum »

Judeo-Christians like to argue over the subject of mans' relative morality, vs God's absolute morality.

But there can only be two schools of thought, dictated by whether you are a Judeo-Christian or not. (Excluding other beliefs, for purposes of this discussion, and for simplicity.)

One school is obvious enough, non-absolute morality.
If that is what you believe, QED.

However, if you believe in absolute morality, that of God's, you have a standard to uphold to, even if it is a "do as I say, not as I do," morality.

There is good, and it is what God says is good, I think all will agree, allowing for that belief.

So here is the challenge, lending itself to no simple QED:

When we ate from the apple, all of mankind was cursed with the knowledge of good and evil.
We were given the power to judge, each and everyone of us who requires redemption, has the knowledge of good and evil.

So, let's break it open.
I see many acts of God as evil. I am not alone in this. In terms of absolute morality, I have been given that power to be an absolute judge, by right of the apple.

How can I, or anyone else, be wrong in judging God evil, since we have been cursed with this divinely promulgated knowledge, and its consequence - by 'Holy Covenant'?

User avatar
JP Cusick
Guru
Posts: 1556
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:25 pm
Location: 20636 USA
Contact:

Re: The myth of absolute morality

Post #41

Post by JP Cusick »

Willum wrote: That poisoned knowledge that God stated made us like him.
Being like - is not the same as being.

As in a sex change operation because it makes the person to be like the other gender, but not quite the same, because it is a fake and a fraud.

So too when people think and act as if we are like God then we fall short, and we make a mess out of our self and out of the entire world.

Being like God is a dilution and a sickness for every person so afflicted.

The cure is to stop it.
Willum wrote: "Poisoned" is a word you used and have defined it that way for this debate. It is not called poisoned anywhere else but FROM YOU.
I do say poisoned because that is emphasizing the message that the "knowledge of good and bad" kills people as like a type of poisoned knowledge in our minds.

The word poison is not used in the text - the text simply tells that the knowledge will kill us.
SIGNATURE:

An unorthodox Theist & a heretic Christian:

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: The myth of absolute morality

Post #42

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 41 by JP Cusick]

It does not change the fact that 1213 and you are inventing things to support your position. Which isn't so bad, but you are inventing things and then supporting them with your opinion, or more rarely, your belief.

Imagine I did that, without supporting it with Bible quotes, what would you think?

But if that's your way forward, might I suggest another religion, one you might feel more comfortable embracing?
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

User avatar
JP Cusick
Guru
Posts: 1556
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:25 pm
Location: 20636 USA
Contact:

Re: The myth of absolute morality

Post #43

Post by JP Cusick »

Willum wrote: It does not change the fact that 1213 and you are inventing things to support your position. Which isn't so bad, but you are inventing things and then supporting them with your opinion, or more rarely, your belief.

Imagine I did that, without supporting it with Bible quotes, what would you think?

But if that's your way forward, might I suggest another religion, one you might feel more comfortable embracing?
Myself and other are giving a bigger picture with more in-depth commentary because we actually live and do as we preach.

We do have a better view from our experience and our years of research and the fact that the scriptures mean so much more to us because we have built our lives around our faith.

People like you pick on the scriptures as if it is some sporting event or some competition of win or lose.

I am very comfortable with my religion, and yet I am forever looking for new insights and new revelations, because for me this is the most important subject in the entire world.

You are welcome to do as we do - you are invited to do that too.
SIGNATURE:

An unorthodox Theist & a heretic Christian:

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: The myth of absolute morality

Post #44

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 43 by JP Cusick]

Well debating with a Christian who doesn't believe in the Bible, or cherry picks it is useless to three things: The community, myself, and yourself.

Like I suggested, why not make up your own religion? Ah, you did.
Perhaps you did, but do not expect us to be telepathic and to know what bits of the Bible you revere, and which parts are junk.

If you are going to call the simple and obvious sentences incorrect because YOU say so, a conversation is impossible.

It's what is called pigeon chess. A variant of the endgame.

User avatar
JP Cusick
Guru
Posts: 1556
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:25 pm
Location: 20636 USA
Contact:

Re: The myth of absolute morality

Post #45

Post by JP Cusick »

Willum wrote: Well debating with a Christian who doesn't believe in the Bible, or cherry picks it is useless to three things: The community, myself, and yourself.

Like I suggested, why not make up your own religion? Ah, you did.
Perhaps you did, but do not expect us to be telepathic and to know what bits of the Bible you revere, and which parts are junk.

If you are going to call the simple and obvious sentences incorrect because YOU say so, a conversation is impossible.

It's what is called pigeon chess. A variant of the endgame.
The conversation would not be impossible if you were speaking for your self, instead of you claiming to have the one and only interpretation of the Bible as you see the words to be so obvious and simple - which they are not.

I am not debating here as a Christian but just as myself = so I see you as doing the same.

My religion is just me and my Maker - so being a Christian is just a label.

If you can not discuss with us as individuals - then you can go to a Church and then try talking to a religion.
SIGNATURE:

An unorthodox Theist & a heretic Christian:

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: The myth of absolute morality

Post #46

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 45 by JP Cusick]

Friend, I am just reading the Bible for what it says - there don't seem to be any need for interpretation from what I see. I am not invoking an interpretation.

Now you seem to be twisting Gods words and even blaspheming in order to keep your opinion of the Bible consistent.
You lose in your twisting of scripture.
You lose in your belief being inconsistent with scripture.

Also, I am unbiased with regards to it.
I read it, and I read the words, I don't NEED it to mean anything other than what it says to fit my beliefs. If something is odd, I can interpret it many ways, as needed.

Like I say, if you don't like Christianity, join another religion.

But also, get back to topic. You haven't disrupted the premise of the OP, scripture holds more important than your opinion, especially without any back up. Absolute morality was granted to Adam and Eve.

Therefore they have the right to judge, especially since they paid their dues for it by the curse of death and exile.
In fact, even if you are right, and they did not get a correct version of right and wrong, they still gained an absolute morality.

If it is the wrong absolute morality, then man can never be forgiven... because he will never know when redemption is required.

QED.

User avatar
JP Cusick
Guru
Posts: 1556
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:25 pm
Location: 20636 USA
Contact:

Re: The myth of absolute morality

Post #47

Post by JP Cusick »

Willum wrote: But also, get back to topic. You haven't disrupted the premise of the OP, scripture holds more important than your opinion, especially without any back up. Absolute morality was granted to Adam and Eve.

Therefore they have the right to judge, especially since they paid their dues for it by the curse of death and exile.
In fact, even if you are right, and they did not get a correct version of right and wrong, they still gained an absolute morality.

If it is the wrong absolute morality, then man can never be forgiven... because he will never know when redemption is required.
I apologize for disrupting your discussion based on your criteria.

I was trying to agree with the title = that the notion of absolute morality is an unsound myth.

:peace:
SIGNATURE:

An unorthodox Theist & a heretic Christian:

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: The myth of absolute morality

Post #48

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 47 by JP Cusick]

Don't worry, you didn't, you simply fell into the minor trap I set from the argument ad absurdum.
That you didn't see the ruse so obvious it wasn't meant as a ruse is telling.

You painted yourself into a corner, and the only way out was your opinions about scripture that certainly have a stronger meaning without your opinion.

Ah, well, and for the third time. if you don't like the principals of Christianity, do not claim to be Christian and then argue against the Bible.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

Post Reply