The Kingdom of Heaven

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:52 pm

Does (or will) the Kingdom of Heaven transcend the walls (metaphorical) of the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Will those outside of the Watch Tower organization be part of the Kingdom? Will they inherit "eternal life in Paradise on Earth"?

Why or why not?

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:27 pm

2ndRateMind wrote: [Replying to post 52 by JehovahsWitness]

Hmmm. But this avoids the question. I want to know why you think the number literal, but the rest metaphorical or figurative? What determines which is which? Or is this just a matter of personal preference and individual interpretation of scripture? And let it not be thought that I am necessarily against that. 'In my Father's house are many mansions'*.

Best wishes, 2RM.

*John 14:2 KJV

We believe that the number 144,000 is literal because the number "12" is apparently meaningful to the God who inspired the Scriptures. 144,000 is "12 X 12." For some reason Jehovah likes "12." We see that there are references to the 12 Apostles (Rev.21:14) and the 12 tribes of Israel (Rev.21:12). We know that those numbers are literal. Therefore we take 12 X 12 to be literal.

We believe the rest of Revelation to be symbolic/ metaphorical because it is written in that kind of language. Chapter 1 verse 1 states that Christ's angel presented the revelation "in signs through him to his slave John." It would be very difficult to try and say that the things presented therein are literal! Jesus is not literally a Lamb. The beast that comes out of the sea is not a literal wild beast with 7 heads. The locusts that come out of an abyss are not literal bugs with heads of men and tails like scorpions.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:55 am

Jehovah is not God's personal name. It means, simplified, comforter. Like in the OT when He says, i am Elohim (God of hosts) when I judge and Jehovah when I comfort. He is named by His works, as He warns we will be also. The name was known in Genesis and forbidden and lost to most thru captivity and time. As the Lord say, even though you have forgotten my name and worshipped other gods.....

Look up Hebrew names of God. There are a few...El Shaddai, which doesn't have a clear translation. Some think God the shredder/destroyer, others mountain god. Etc...

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:58 am

brianbbs67 wrote: Jehovah is not God's personal name.

Look up Hebrew names of God. There are a few.... Etc...

So God has a few names but JEHOVAH is NOT one of them, does that about sum up the totality of your research on the subject? Is this the same ... "research" that revealed to you that "Ha shem" means up?

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:01 pm

brianbbs67 wrote: Jehovah is not God's personal name. It means, simplified, comforter. Like in the OT when He says, i am Elohim (God of hosts) when I judge and Jehovah when I comfort. He is named by His works, as He warns we will be also. The name was known in Genesis and forbidden and lost to most thru captivity and time. As the Lord say, even though you have forgotten my name and worshipped other gods.....

Look up Hebrew names of God. There are a few...El Shaddai, which doesn't have a clear translation. Some think God the shredder/destroyer, others mountain god. Etc...

No, brian. Names like "El Shaddai" are not actually personal names; that is a title. It is applied to the one and only true God and never to His Son. The Son is "El Gibbohr," a title, the exact meaning of which I'd have to look up right now, but it is a lesser role than "El Shaddai," which always refers to the Most High God and never to the Son. At Isaiah 9:6 uses "mighty god" to refer to the Son, the Messiah. The word there in Hebrew is "El Gibbohr," not "El Shaddai."

God's name "Jehovah" does not mean "comforter." It means, literally, "I shall cause to be what I shall cause to be." In other words, He will cause to take place whatever it takes to advance and fulfill His will.

People erroneously teach that God has several names. Sadly, they are ignorant. We can only hope that they have the veil lifted someday soon so that they will understand and accept the truth that there is ONE personal name of God. Some say that the following are some of the numerous names of God:

Jehovah-Shammah
Jehovah-Tsidhqenu
Jehovah-Jireh
Jehovah-Nissi

Upon examining these names, we can plainly see that they are actually the names of places that were named AFTER Jehovah, to show Him honor.

"Jehovah-Shammah" means "Jehovah Himself is There," and refers to a city.

"Jehovah-Tsidhqenu" means "Jehovah is Our Righteousness," and refers to another city--Jerusalem--at Jeremiah 33:14-16.

"Jehovah-Jireh" means "Jehovah Will See To It," or, "Jehovah Will Provide." It refers to one of the mountains in the land of Moriah where Abraham was set to offer up Isaac.

"Jehovah-Nissi" means "Jehovah is My Refuge," or, "Jehovah is My Exaltation." It refers to the altar erected by Moses after a successful battle with the Amalekites.

That's just a handful of examples, and they show that those are not God's names but the names of places or things devoted to Jehovah for His honor.

His name was eventually forbidden due to a silly superstition started up by the Jewish religious leaders quite far along in their history. Someone got the idea to suppress God's personal name which He told them to use forever (Exodus 3:15), and go against His wishes and stop pronouncing it! They said that pronouncing His name goes against the Commandment which says, "Thou shalt not take the name of [Jehovah] in vain." (See the Darby translation.) Taking someone's name "in vain" means to use it idly, or in a disrespectful way. It certainly doesn't mean to not say it at all!

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:19 pm

[Replying to post 64 by onewithhim]

God's name "Jehovah" does not mean "comforter." It means, literally, "I shall cause to be what I shall cause to be." In other words, He will cause to take place whatever it takes to advance and fulfill His will.

That is the key point of any discussion about "the Name".

What the name means to its Owner is the original emphasis by Him.

That He is God and not like anyone else; He is to be respected and known as the One who "will be who I will be".

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:47 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: Jehovah is not God's personal name.

Look up Hebrew names of God. There are a few.... Etc...

So God has a few names but JEHOVAH is NOT one of them, does that about sum up the totality of your research on the subject? Is this the same ... "research" that revealed to you that "Ha shem" means up?

No, not my point at all. Jehovah is a title, too. Just like Elohim(god of hosts), Shaddai, Adonai, Elroi, etc

https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.cfm

Ha shem=heaven, literally high water

Shem=earth, lower/lesser water

Of course, this contrdicts that above. adding to the IDK

http://www.jewfaq.org/name.htm

My point was only that, no one knows His true name. We know the titles He is called by of which one is Jehovah and another Yahweh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:49 pm

[Replying to post 64 by onewithhim]

I agree they all are just a title. Because as He said, we would all forget His name...

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:43 pm

brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: Jehovah is not God's personal name.

Look up Hebrew names of God. There are a few.... Etc...

So God has a few names but JEHOVAH is NOT one of them, does that about sum up the totality of your research on the subject?
No, not my point at all. My point was only that, no one knows His true name.

So God has "a few" names but nobody knows his true name, one thing we know for CERTAIN though is whatever it is it is not YHWH (JEHOVAH) Does this better summarize your point?

Do you now what those squiggely letters are in the picture below?

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:15 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: Jehovah is not God's personal name.

Look up Hebrew names of God. There are a few.... Etc...

So God has a few names but JEHOVAH is NOT one of them, does that about sum up the totality of your research on the subject?
No, not my point at all. My point was only that, no one knows His true name.
So God has "a few" names but nobody knows his true name, one thing we know for CERTAIN though is whatever it is it is not YHWH (JEHOVAH) Does this better summarize your point?

Do you now what those squiggely letters are in the picture below?

It could be Bob, asfaik. But, Jehovah is an english transliteration, just as Jesus is a Greek one.

Someone, probably knows His real name. Could it be Jehovah? sure, but that's an outside chance due to the English transliteration and the letter J not appearing till much later to supplant Y. And the vowels are English insertions.

Could it be His name? Yes, but , my point is, No one knows with any certainty. To claim so is wrong. because we don't know for sure. His name could be Yahoowah by those terms. Could be Yehoshau. And a lot of others. It is sufficient to say we don't know, but He is Lord. He did warn we would forget His name....

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:36 am

brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: Jehovah is not God's personal name.

Look up Hebrew names of God. There are a few.... Etc...

So God has a few names but JEHOVAH is NOT one of them, does that about sum up the totality of your research on the subject?
No, not my point at all. My point was only that, no one knows His true name.
So God has "a few" names but nobody knows his true name, one thing we know for CERTAIN though is whatever it is it is not YHWH (JEHOVAH) Does this better summarize your point?

Do you now what those squiggely letters are in the picture below?

It could be Bob, asfaik. But, Jehovah is an english transliteration, ..

An English transliteration of what?

brianbbs67 wrote:
Someone, probably knows His real name...

Yes that would be me. I cannot tell you for certain how it was originally pronounced but I can certainly tell you what it is. How to write it in Hebrewb and how it is commonly pronounced in English.

JW