Can Satan ask for forgiveness?

[Willum]

So, it has been near forty years since I asked this question, and I never got a satisfactory answer, but here it is again, with perhaps some more mature ramifications attached.
Given a virtual eternity, and Satan being smart, why wouldn't he simply ask for forgiveness?

Would he be forgiven?
Why/Why not?

Did the fall count as his "death?"

And if he did, what about all the souls trapped in Hell, would they be released?

Wouldn't redemption of the Devil, be the best way to heal the planet and eternity?

[Neatras]

Satan isn't written to be a thinking character capable of learning. He's written to be an antagonist. So Christians at large won't ever give second thought to the entirely rational position that an infinitely old being will at some point change its tactics from trying to overthrow a literally omnipotent being to some other venture. Because they presuppose he's stupid enough to rebel in the first place, they are duty bound to assume he'll always be that stupid, otherwise it undermines the fact that Satan is supposedly a real, living entity out there somewhere, and isn't just a stagnant character in fiction.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

Jesus saves only humans. His blood covers our blood. So there really isn't any forgiveness possible that I am aware of.

Suppose I murder your family and get a life sentence. But then, hey jail sucks, no really, I truly repent and ask for forgiveness and you forgive me. Do you mean I get to walk?

It's all speculation really. Satan from my thinking was the brightest of angels, he and the other angels knew God face to face and still rejected God. You know I will throw the devil a bone: Can we ever know God is omni-everything? There must have been some part of the devil that thought hey maybe God isn't who he says he is. Otherwise, if the devil knew who God was and still rebelled then what saving grace could there be possibly be?

The return of Jesus is the best way to heal the planet and eternity I reckon.

[JP Cusick]

So, it has been near forty years since I asked this question, and I never got a satisfactory answer, but here it is again, with perhaps some more mature ramifications attached.
Given a virtual eternity, and Satan being smart, why wouldn't he simply ask for forgiveness?

Would he be forgiven?
Why/Why not?

Did the fall count as his "death?"

And if he did, what about all the souls trapped in Hell, would they be released?

Wouldn't redemption of the Devil, be the best way to heal the planet and eternity?

My understanding is that God gives forgiveness without anyone asking, and God loves His enemies, so God must thereby love Satan the Devil too, and so even the Devil gets saved.

When humanity finally sees the truth and every person is raised incorruptible then the Devil or Satan will no longer have the power to deceive or to trick or to do any more harm, and so then there will not be any reason to hold a grudge or to seek revenge and even the Devil will be saved.

The Apostle Paul described the fires of Hell as being for purification to save people, so even those in Hell shall be saved, see 1 Corinthians 3:15-16

No one has to ask for forgiveness because Jesus paid the penalty in full, and now it is a free gift from the Father.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 3 by Wootah]

Suppose I murder your family and get a life sentence. But then, hey jail sucks, no really, I truly repent and ask for forgiveness and you forgive me. Do you mean I get to walk?

The flaw in your analogy is that here, you are talking about three parties: you, Willum and his family, and the courts.

You receiving forgiveness from Willum would quite rightly have little to no bearing on how the courts see the situation. It was the courts who sentenced you to life, not Willum.

However, what Willum is talking about (if I understand him correctly) are two parties: Satan and God. Can Satan ask for forgiveness from God and can or would God grant it?

Satan from my thinking was the brightest of angels, he and the other angels knew God face to face and still rejected God.

Hence the question of the OP: can or would God forgive this? Surely if God is interested in earning the status of compassionate, loving and forgiving, he would have to do the work of...ya know...forgiving!

You know I will throw the devil a bone: Can we ever know God is omni-everything?

Precisely the reason why I reject Christian claims of God being omni-anything. Since we are not omni's ourselves, we more than likely cannot know or recognise omni if we see it.

There must have been some part of the devil that thought hey maybe God isn't who he says he is.

So would God forgive someone for making an honest mistake? This is what the situation is then, according to the above. Someone making an honest mistake about someone else and the two getting into a squabble.

Otherwise, if the devil knew who God was and still rebelled then what saving grace could there be possibly be?

The thirteen colonies that became the United States of America rebelled against Britain, in full recognition of what Britain was...and yet the two became allies, and close partners.
Surely God doesn't want to set a poor example for us humans? Surely the lesson isn't "Rebel once and that's it! That's final! Even if it was an honest mistake on your part, tough!"

Jesus saves only humans. His blood covers our blood. So there really isn't any forgiveness possible that I am aware of.

What does blood honestly have to do with forgiveness? Do you require that blood be shed before you forgive someone else? Even if blood is required by God...why can't Jesus's blood cover Satan too? If God said that Jesus's blood did cover Satan, would you disagree with the Almighty, and say nope, it's for us humans only?

[bluethread]

So, it has been near forty years since I asked this question, and I never got a satisfactory answer, but here it is again, with perhaps some more mature ramifications attached.
Given a virtual eternity, and Satan being smart, why wouldn't he simply ask for forgiveness?

There could be any number of reasons, but what comes to my mind is an unwillingness to acknowledge Adonai's authority.

Would he be forgiven?
Why/Why not?

Well, asking for forgiveness does not constitute repentance. Without recognition, restitution and reformation, such a request is no more than begging.

Did the fall count as his "death?"

The details of the personification referred to as HaSatan are rather thin. The majority of Satanology is doctrinal, not directly Scriptural. So, whether the garden mythology or the doctrinal explanation of the fall of Satan from heaven resulted in final judgement is subject to much speculation.

And if he did, what about all the souls trapped in Hell, would they be released?

The concept of "hell" is also rather spotty and subject to much speculation.

Wouldn't redemption of the Devil, be the best way to heal the planet and eternity?

Not necessarily. In almost every area, exercise, literature, reason, etc. resistance is valuable in fostering growth.

[ttruscott]

Satan isn't written to be a thinking character capable of learning. He's written to be an antagonist. So Christians at large won't ever give second thought to the entirely rational position that an infinitely old being will at some point change its tactics from trying to overthrow a literally omnipotent being to some other venture. Because they presuppose he's stupid enough to rebel in the first place, they are duty bound to assume he'll always be that stupid, otherwise it undermines the fact that Satan is supposedly a real, living entity out there somewhere, and isn't just a stagnant character in fiction.

Read, not written, this way, GOD is responsible for the creation of Satan and evil. Many Christians do not accept that the GOD who is righteous and loving would create evil and find much support in the Bible.

This leaves the possibility that Satan as a mature adult and in full understanding of YHWH's warnings about such actions but with no proof [since it is inconceivable that any person knowing GOD's Divinity and power would rebel to HIS face to go to certain hell] decided to reject YHWH's definitions of reality and go with a definition that he thought served his happiness better.

ImCo:
Two things mitigate against his ever repenting: 1. the strongest being that once evil is chosen, it darkens the soul, corrupting its desires and logical process by an addictive type of enslavement that the person itself cannot resist. Since such a rebellion as Satan made against GOD and his promises of salvation as lies of a false god, he put himself outside of the promises, (his free will rejection of salvation had to be sacrosanct), and so outside of GOD's grace and loving kindness, the only power that can bring him to repentance.

And 2. his commitment to resist YHWH knowing that if YHWH were indeed our GOD that he would end in hell had to be a perfect commitment to the idea that YHWH was lying about being our GOD and therefore lying about the reality of sin and hell and therefore there was nothing to fear. This conclusion was too nerve-racking for some who decided to accept YHWH as their GOD to come under HIS promise of salvation and so be free from all fear of hell and only then to enter into a rebellion against HIM and HIS plans for them, becoming the good (elect) but sinful seed.

To reject the safe way of rebellion that others took, Satan et al had to be perfectly committed to their choice while knowing that if they were wrong, hell awaited them but accepted a hell without YHWH and HIS arrogance and cruel threats as preferable to spending one minute in heaven as HIS Bride under HIS rules and morality, making such claims as better being free in hell than a slave in heaven, etc etc.

So could such a person ever change his mind about this situation? Only if they faced hell itself and had proof of their fate. Does that make them suitable for a righteous life in heaven? Not in the least for they are accepting GOD by fear of hell and not by their free will since they would never choose or accept HIM if they did not have hell proven to them. Since the heavenly marriage experience was only open to those who accepted HIM and HIS promises by faith, an unproven hope, they can never be eligible for such a relationship with HIM.

No, any such wail for forgiveness would be based upon abject fear without mitigating the hatred that had them choose against HIM in the first place, completely against the meaning of repentance of a sincere change of heart and mind about themselves.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 7 by ttruscott]

Since such a rebellion as Satan made against GOD and his promises of salvation as lies of a false god, he put himself outside of the promises and so outside of GOD's grace and loving kindness, the only power that can bring him to repentance.

So Satan, for whatever reason, thought that this Yahweh character wasn't who/what he claimed to be and so (as would I, in that situation) rebelled against him? Assuming you say I have it correct...why not forgive?
When I was a child, I did not acknowledge my mother as well...my mother, and sided with my father. Now, the situation is reversed, and my mother and I enjoy a nice healthy relationship. At one point in time, I thought she was not what she claimed herself to be but now I do. Why is it my mother is able to forgive what I did in the past, but not God?

To reject the safe way of rebellion that others took, Satan et al had to be perfectly committed to their choice while knowing that if they were wrong, hell awaited them but accepted a hell without YHWH and HIS arrogance and cruel threats as preferable to spending one minute in heaven as HIS Bride under HIS rules and morality, making such claims as better being free in hell than a slave in heaven, etc etc.

That last line is from John Milton. I don't know if you actually consider an English poet who lived about fifteen hundred years after Jesus as somehow being an authority on the mindset of Satan, and if so, my question is why? Why treat what Milton says with any credibility?

Anyone who rebels knows and realizes that if they are wrong, then they deserve to be punished (or at least they should; the less said about the idiots in Antifa, BLM and BAMN, the better).

his commitment to resist YHWH knowing that if YHWH were indeed our GOD that he would end in hell had to be a perfect commitment to the idea that YHWH was lying about being our GOD and therefore lying about the reality of sin and hell and therefore there was nothing to fear.

If Satan does in any way think like us humans, I wouldn't say a 'perfect commitment', but rather that he thought that it was more likely that this YHWH character was lying versus that YHWH is not lying, and therefore, YHWH ought to be resisted. Notice that in this train of thought, there is nothing that can be described as 'evil' or a 'lust for power', merely a resistance against what one thinks is a liar.
Someone who resists but doesn't feel fear is a fool. Why would Satan not feel fear?

So could such a person ever change his mind about this situation? Only if they faced hell itself and had proof of their fate.

So in your mind, the only people who have changed their mind regarding God actually saw or experienced hell, had direct proof of it?
What about people who report becoming Christian without saying anything like that?

Does that make them suitable for a righteous life in heaven? Not in the least for they are accepting GOD by fear of hell and not by their free will since they would never choose or accept HIM if they did not have hell proven to them. Since the heavenly marriage experience was only open to those who accepted HIM and HIS promises by faith, an unproven hope, they can never be eligible for such a relationship with HIM.

Speaking for myself here, but I could never accept an offer of marriage from a woman who says about herself "I am a millionaire, but I am not going to provide proof of that. Now marry me please, if you really do love me, you won't require evidence for what I claim about myself".

No, any such wail for forgiveness would be based upon abject fear without mitigating the hatred that had them choose against HIM in the first place, completely against the meaning of repentance of a sincere change of heart and mind about themselves.

So you don't allow any other motives for Satan wanting or asking for forgiveness? It can only ever be the one motive, you disallow any other reasons?

[1213]

...Given a virtual eternity, and Satan being smart, why wouldn't he simply ask for forgiveness?

I believe he would not ask forgiveness, because he doesn’t think he has done anything wrong, or that God is right.

[Wootah]

[Replying to JP Cusick]

So if even Satan is saved then everyone is saved? Why bother?