Can Satan ask for forgiveness?

[Willum]

So, it has been near forty years since I asked this question, and I never got a satisfactory answer, but here it is again, with perhaps some more mature ramifications attached.
Given a virtual eternity, and Satan being smart, why wouldn't he simply ask for forgiveness?

Would he be forgiven?
Why/Why not?

Did the fall count as his "death?"

And if he did, what about all the souls trapped in Hell, would they be released?

Wouldn't redemption of the Devil, be the best way to heal the planet and eternity?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 20 by JP Cusick]

Willumism is to observe the Bible and show that it is inconsistent and false using itself, history and observation.
We cannot discuss Cusickism, because no-one understands it but you, and since it is your belief, it's like Samson's riddle. No-one knows the answer but you - we have no common set of understanding.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 18 by JP Cusick]

When I declare the Gospel correctly then I am being the true Christian.

Do I need to teach you about No True Scotsman?

[bluethread]

The rational conflict would be if one of the three definitions were suggested to have been created by YHWH for some GODly reason. The end of the nations suggests that they cannot have been created as outside of HIS ways but must have chosen by their free will to be outside of HIS ways or their end in hell is not justified.

No, "Adonai's ways" does not refer to Adonai's grand design, or behavior one would expect from Adonai. It generally refers to Adonai's ways for His people. The latter is implied in the idiom. Adonai's grand design includes His people, who are to live according to His ways(tov), and the nations, that do not live according to His ways(ra'). Also, Adonai is not bound by His design, His creation is. In the context of the creation myth, it refers to Adonai's ways for the creation. After the creation, the scope covered by the idiom narrows as the focus of the narrative narrows.

[ttruscott]

Yes, ttruscott, seems to have missed the point of the topic: Satan changes his mind, can he request forgiveness?
So the answer should be yes, and if he does, now what?

Nope - you missed the point of my answer...Satan can't change his mind and so will never request the forgiveness that is based upon full repentance.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 24 by ttruscott]

Who are you to dictate what Satan can and can't do?
Where is your scripture to back it up?

If Satan is intelligent, he must be able to change his mind, otherwise he would bot be.

[JP Cusick]

Willumism is to observe the Bible and show that it is inconsistent and false using itself, history and observation.

No, to have your own voice as Willumism must mean your own self generated thoughts and opinions and conclusions and decisions of your own creation.

Criticizing others and denouncing things is an easy defensive mentality which prevents any real discussion from happening.

Our own voice has to be what we our self (what you) find to be true, what do you see as praiseworthy, what do you value, what do you declare as important - that would be your own Willumism.

Otherwise you are just Mr negativity and Mr contrary and Mr bitter.

We cannot discuss Cusickism, because no-one understands it but you, and since it is your belief, it's like Samson's riddle. No-one knows the answer but you - we have no common set of understanding.

Unfortunate other people do claim to speak for my Cusickism often time in any discussion and I wish that they could see as you declare that only I can speak for my self.

And as I said - I do give references and links and explanations because I do justify my positions as best as I can, and I am wide open to contradiction or to opposition so that makes room for anyone who wants to discuss the topic with me.

From what you are saying then you do not discuss anything as person-to-person but just abstract concept to abstract concept based on the worldly superiors and never on your self as an authority.

I see my self as an authority, and so yes I speak for my own beliefs and opinions and my own doctrines.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 26 by JP Cusick]

No, to have your own voice as Willumism must mean your own self generated thoughts and opinions and conclusions and decisions of your own creation.

No, there is no Willimism, I guess you missed the description.
Good effort though. Try to turn your personal inconsistent beliefs about the Bible on me as if my Willumism, was something other than critical thinking and research.

Here's what it is: You have beliefs about the Bible I, as an impartial observe can not reckon with what the Bible says through any stretch of the imagination.

Whereas my fatuous "Willumism," is critical thinking and research.
As much as I would be honored to have you believe I invented research and critical thinking, even as vainglorious as I am, I can't take credit for them.

I only invented critical thinking. Research was invented by Tired of the Nonsense.

[JP Cusick]

No, there is no Willimism, I guess you missed the description.
Good effort though. Try to turn your personal inconsistent beliefs about the Bible on me as if my Willumism, was something other than critical thinking and research.

Here's what it is: You have beliefs about the Bible I, as an impartial observe can not reckon with what the Bible says through any stretch of the imagination.

Whereas my fatuous "Willumism," is critical thinking and research.
As much as I would be honored to have you believe I invented research and critical thinking, even as vainglorious as I am, I can't take credit for them.

I only invented critical thinking. Research was invented by Tired of the Nonsense.

There is no honor in it.

No pride, no self respect.

And thereby there is no person-to-person discussion.

Yours is just to attack and destroy, while building nothing.

I gave the correct response to this topic in my comment #4 and that is enough for me.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 28 by JP Cusick]

To destroy lies is to destroy nothing.
But it does allow lies to be discarded so that instead of venerating mis-construe, you move on to better things.

Back to topic?

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 24 by ttruscott]

Who are you to dictate what Satan can and can't do?

Jeepers Willum, who are you to dictate what I can or cannot dictate? I dictate nothing.

Where is your scripture to back it up?

Every word in the Bible witnessing to the Goodness of GOD is my back up. Every mention of the evil of men is my scriptural back up. Every mention of the flames of hell is my back up.

IF GOD is good then 1. HE did not create evil. 2. HE would save everyone from hell that can be saved, that is, no one would be in hell unless they could not be saved from it. It logically follows from the existence of evil that 1. people chose to go against GOD and so created themselves as evil and 2. there was a choice that rendered them as unsaveable, outside of GOD's mercy and loving kindness and 3. it must have been a choice they could not repent and turn from or they would avoid hell on their own.

IF we accept that there is a hell and even one person will end there then we must assume they got there by their own bad choices which must have included a choice that made them unforgivable (gee, there is a scripture for that too: Matthew 12:31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.) and that they were unable to save themselves or they would.

If Satan is intelligent, he must be able to change his mind, otherwise he would bot be.

Whatever this means, intelligence is not the criteria for Christian repentance as the slow of mind are just as forgiven as the mentally quick. It is not their vast intelligence which is alluded to in Matthew 18:3 "Truly I tell you," He said, "unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Your postulation also goes against the Christian attitude that intelligence is often a trap for the sinful: 1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

It is accepted by many churches that when Jesus told us that we are enslaved to sin He meant that once we sin we lose our free will to the addiction to evil and until we are reborn we do not have a free will as our ability to choose is corrupted and clouded by evil desires. This is supported by the import of Romans 1 which I won't quote here but which explains the process of not being able to "change your mind" quite fully.