Jesus did not declare Paul a trust-worthy person. Did he?

[paarsurrey1]

Jesus did not declare Paul a trust-worthy person. Did he, please?
Regards

[Checkpoint]

Jesus did not declare Paul a trust-worthy person. Did he, please?
Regards

He didn't declare him trustworthy or untrustworthy.

However, he did say this:

Acts 9:

15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man [Paul] is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.�

Acts 9:

15 But the Lord said to Ananias

, “Go! This man [Paul] is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.�

This is again not told by Jesus but reported by Paul, not even written, reported and confirmed by Ananias. Right, please?
Regards

So, Paul therefore cannot be believed?

Many things were not told directly by Jesus.

What is Jesus, to you?

[Checkpoint]

Come on EJ - what else apart from the Bible do you want checkpoint to use....

Jesus never said anything about nearly all his followers so does that mean anything at all?

Oh I can't trust X Jesus didn't say they are trustworthy .... the question is asinine.

Never said here that Paul wasn't trustworthy, just sayin' it's a matter of faith. Not something the historical Jesus ever said. Anything "post Easter" is a matter of faith. I think some apologists err when they give historical weight to anything the "risen Christ" is said to have said and equate those things to what the historical, flesh and blood Jesus is likely to have said.

It's all "a matter of faith", EJ.

"Post-Easter" and before that, including the Tanakh, including the prophets.

Some things in the Bible are more a matter of faith alone than others, and need to be taken that way.

Other things, (like the pre Easter stuff) have a more rational basis, such as the ethic of reciprocity, the Golden Rule the Ten Commandments, etc.

HJ scholars rely more on the pre-Easter accounts when seeking to uncover the real, historic Jesus. The post-Easter stuff is really "only" the "Christ of Faith". Beyond reason, not necessarily untrue, but simply unverifiable as likely by historical, archeological and academic methods.

The things that are matters of faith alone should not be imposed on others, and it should never be assumed that people with different religious beliefs are not also with God simply because they differ with orthodoxy, or with one's opinion.

General statement, not necessarily directed at you.

Well, it seems your faith is in HJ scholars and/or in what is verified as you see it.

[marco]

Visions are a part of that, and an integral part of scripture and of how God sometimes chooses to speak.

Numbers 12:6

He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, YHVH, shall make Myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak with him in a dream".

There is no difference between visions of Paul and visions of Joseph Smith, both announcing some revelation. The method of differentiating is quite arbitrary - choice. If one believes in angels, like Gabriel, working as divine messengers, then who can deny Muhammad's visions or Smith's? Can we take Bernadette's vision of Christ's mother as convincing? Many do.

Perhaps Matthew 24:11 "and many false prophets will arise and mislead many" refers to Paul. We are warned that even the elect might be deceived by reported wonders.

But if we look at the fruit, as Christ tells us, then Bernadette's vision seems pretty convincing while Paul's teaching on women is divisive.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 11 by Checkpoint]

Checkpoint wrote:
What is Jesus, to you?

Jesus was:
1. a human being,
2. not a god or son of god, in literal and physical terms.
3. Jesus was a prophet/messenger of One-True-God with the title name of Messiah.
4. Jesus was follower of Moses and his mission was fixed by God to reform the followers of Moses and set them on the original teachings of Moses:

[5:76] The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 5&verse=75

Does it help, please?
Regards

[Checkpoint]

Visions are a part of that, and an integral part of scripture and of how God sometimes chooses to speak.

Numbers 12:6

He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, YHVH, shall make Myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak with him in a dream".

There is no difference between visions of Paul and visions of Joseph Smith, both announcing some revelation. The method of differentiating is quite arbitrary - choice. If one believes in angels, like Gabriel, working as divine messengers, then who can deny Muhammad's visions or Smith's? Can we take Bernadette's vision of Christ's mother as convincing? Many do.

Perhaps
Matthew 24:11 "and many false prophets will arise and mislead many" refers to Paul. We are warned that even the elect might be deceived by reported wonders.

But if we look at the fruit, as Christ tells us, then Bernadette's vision seem pretty convincing while Paul's teaching on women is divisive.

Perhaps this and perhaps that.

What seems this and what seems that.

Each to their own discernment.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 11 by Checkpoint]

Checkpoint wrote:
What is Jesus, to you?

Jesus was:
1. a human being,
2. not a god or son of god, in literal and physical terms.
3. Jesus was a prophet/messenger of One-True-God with the title name of Messiah.
4. Jesus was follower of Moses and his mission was fixed by God to reform the followers of Moses and set them on the original teachings of Moses:

[5:76] The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 5&verse=75

Does it help, please?
Regards

It helps that you have spelled out the position of Islam, thus confirming that is your religion.

[marco]

Perhaps this and perhaps that. What seems this and what seems that.

Each to their own discernment.

You summarise the religious position perfectly, but I wouldn't say discernment decides. One selects a religious group and then justifies one's position from within. Your "perhaps and this or that" decide the issue. But not satisfactorily. If we want authority, the most impressive is the Quran, the actual words of God. But let's leave reason and discernment at home.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 11 by Checkpoint]

Checkpoint wrote:
What is Jesus, to you?

Jesus was:
1. a human being,
2. not a god or son of god, in literal and physical terms.
3. Jesus was a prophet/messenger of One-True-God with the title name of Messiah.
4. Jesus was follower of Moses and his mission was fixed by God to reform the followers of Moses and set them on the original teachings of Moses:

[5:76] The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 5&verse=75

Does it help, please?
Regards

It helps that you have spelled out the position of Islam, thus confirming that is your religion.

Yes, I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim as I believe Islam is the most practical, dynamic, reasonlabe and truthful religion.
Regards

[Prince]

Jesus words recorded in the Gospels prove Paul is an impostor.

[paarsurrey1]

Jesus words recorded in the Gospels prove Paul is an impostor.

Will one quote them here, please?
Regards