Satan asks God for forgiveness, now what?

[Willum]

So we have moved beyond rationalizations that Satan can't do that, he has free-will, and is supposedly smarter than you.

So Satan asks God for forgiveness.
What happens?

Does all that prophesy go away?
Are those people in Hell forgiven?
Would Satan be forgiven?

So many questions.

[OnceConvinced]

It seems to me that Satan has a mental illness. A very severe one. I don't see how he could possibly be a sane being yet be so intent on evil unless he was mentally insane, which means that he can't help being evil.

Giving in to the illusion that Satan is real - how could God create something imperfect, as in someone insane? The God we speak of couldn't, obviously.

Perhaps God deliberately set out to create an insane being, in which case he did a perfect job of it.

My personal view on this, is if there is a god, then he seems to have made a heck of a lot of mistakes, so can't be considered perfect. He supposedly created a perfect world which was able to be severely corrupted as soon as a human being sinned. I don't call that perfect. Either he intended it to be that way, or he was incompetent.

He can forgive Satan if Satan repents and acknowledges him just as he could forgive Charles Manson, Stalin or Hitler if they did. All one has to do is acknowledge God.

But don't we all need Satan, Hitler and Manson to be in Hell for what they have done, in order to justify our own goodness?

If they asked for forgiveness, then that renders them righteous in the eyes of God. It shows how God can forgive anyone no matter how horrendous they are.

Just think about it, Willum. You too could be rubbing shoulders with some of the worst people in history up there in Heaven. If they repented on their deathbeds, like that thief on the cross, they make it through. You will be loving all those guys as if they were your own brothers.

I mean, let's face it, with the allies closing in, Hitler probably was very penitent. They all acknowledge God (sv Stalin).

If he was sincere, like the thief on the cross next to Jesus was, then all those good Christians out there will be able to rub shoulders with him in Heaven and be saying what a great guy he is.

I can just imagine. "Hey, Hitler! It's so great to see you here! How fantastic that you asked God for forgiveness. I'm so happy you are here, brother. I love you man!"

Willum wrote:

Does all that prophesy go away?

I guess God would have to do some tweaking. But then he did a lot of tweaking between the Old and New Testament.

I am not sure how I feel about an all-powerful/all-knowing ever-present God requiring tweaking.

He tweaked things when he brought in Jesus, right? Suddenly all those burnt sacrifices aren't necessary to gain his favour anymore. No longer does the aroma of burning flesh have quite the amount of sway over God as it once did. All you have to do his be thankful for human sacrifice.

Could it be he is just pulling the Jehovah mind trick and forcing Satan into a role, or created a bugbear?

Every super hero needs a nemesis. So Satan was created as Jesus's nemesis. Ouila! Jesus's Moriarty...his Lex Luthor... his Voldemort.

My point in that was, if all sin was related to Satan's acts, and he recanted, wouldn't it be unfair to punish those he caused to sin, or at least those after Adam and Eve. So wouldn't a merciful God do something about that?

I would have to agree it would be unfair but it seems the bible god doesn't care about that sort of thing. All those Jews that Hitler condemned to the gas chambers will still fry in Hell simply because they didn't acknowledge Jesus.

Basically the only sin that's unforgiveable is rejecting God/Jesus

Do gods really have to be fair?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 61 by OnceConvinced]

So it is rough debating with someone whom you agree with...
Those conclusions were pretty much my own.

So let's further the question, if the results of Satan repenting are as described... what does God need to wait around for Satan to repent for?

Satan clearly has power in the relationship, if God can't redeem his victims.

If Satan can save the world by changing his mind... how powerless is God?

[OnceConvinced]

So let's further the question, if the results of Satan repenting are as described... what does God need to wait around for Satan to repent for?

Because he's stubborn like that. Gods seem to be a stubborn lot, don't they? "It's my way or the high way". "Practise what I preach, but don't do as I do". "I won't do anything until you get down on your knees and beg".

Satan clearly has power in the relationship, if God can't redeem his victims.

I think it's more of a matter of "won't".

If Satan can save the world by changing his mind... how powerless is God?

Mmmmm. Interesting question. It seems we have two very stubborn individuals here, neither of them willing to budge. Satan not willing to bow down to God and God not willing to do anything without some form of ass-kissing going on.

Perhaps it's a little like a game of chess with humans as the pieces. Neither player (God or Satan) is willing to lay down their king and save the rest of the pieces from being taken.

[Claire Evans]

So we have moved beyond rationalizations that Satan can't do that, he has free-will, and is supposedly smarter than you.

So Satan asks God for forgiveness.
What happens?

Does all that prophesy go away?
Are those people in Hell forgiven?
Would Satan be forgiven?

So many questions.

Prophecy in Revelation says Satan and the false prophet will be thrown in the lake of fire where they will be tormented forever. Thus Satan asking God for forgiveness is impossible and would never happen.

I think people miscontrue the nature of Satan. The chance of Satan repenting is like the chance God will turn to evil. Zero %

[Justin108]

So we have moved beyond rationalizations that Satan can't do that, he has free-will, and is supposedly smarter than you.

So Satan asks God for forgiveness.
What happens?

Does all that prophesy go away?
Are those people in Hell forgiven?
Would Satan be forgiven?

So many questions.

Prophecy in Revelation says Satan and the false prophet will be thrown in the lake of fire where they will be tormented forever. Thus Satan asking God for forgiveness is impossible and would never happen.

I think people miscontrue the nature of Satan. The chance of Satan repenting is like the chance God will turn to evil. Zero %

So Satan doesn't have free will?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 63 by OnceConvinced]

It is interesting, but I was rather criticizing God's behavior:

If all Satan has to do is change his mind and he can potentially redeem all history, then why doesn't God just "pretend" Satan has changed his mind, and redeem all of history?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 64 by Claire Evans]

Prophecy in Revelation says Satan and the false prophet will be thrown in the lake of fire where they will be tormented forever. Thus Satan asking God for forgiveness is impossible and would never happen.

Ah yes, but if Satan seeks redemption, there is no lake of fire, is there?

Or are you saying God could never allow it because then... then what?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

So we have moved beyond rationalizations that Satan can't do that, he has free-will, and is supposedly smarter than you.

So Satan asks God for forgiveness.
What happens?

Does all that prophesy go away?
Are those people in Hell forgiven?
Would Satan be forgiven?

So many questions.

If Satan repented and asked God for forgiveness, and God complied, then the Bible, God's Word, would be rendered inaccurate. In other words, in one swoop Satan could not only spare himself from eons of misery and torment, he could undo God's promises. One would think that that would be pretty compelling. But Satan was specifically and directly created for his role by God's own hand. And God cannot be wrong. Satan MUST soldier on to his promised fate according to God's plan like the good minion he was created to be, otherwise God would be proven fallible. Which explains why Satan seems to be in such an evil mood all of the time. He's trapped and has no way out.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 68 by Tired of the Nonsense]

This is such an interesting post.

Over all eternity, say he did repent - and sent the world spiraling into a state of absolute bliss, could he change his mind in the future?

Can we change our mind in Heaven? obviously not.

So the story is unraveling...

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 68 by Tired of the Nonsense]

This is such an interesting post.

Over all eternity, say he did repent - and sent the world spiraling into a state of absolute bliss, could he change his mind in the future?

Can we change our mind in Heaven? obviously not.

So the story is unraveling...

This is one of the various great paradoxes that Christianity is founded on. Most Christians try to get around this self contradictory bit of illogic by declaring that God gave Satan free will and therefore bears no responsibility for Satan's actions. This childlike piece of rationale fails completely on several accounts. First, If I hold a large rock over someone's head and release it, then the rock technically becomes a free agent. It's not MY fault if the person's head is injured. It's the rock that bears responsibility. Or perhaps gravity. Second, if God is omnipotent then He got exactly the result He intended to get when He created Satan. Third, if God is omniscient, as He surely must be to be omnipotent, then God knew full well that Satan would rebel. The only reasonable conclusion therefore is that Satan was created to fall. And, perhaps most significantly, nowhere does the Bible say that Satan was given free will. Nor anyone else either for that matter.

When faced with anything that is self contradicting there can only be one reasonable conclusion. The entire premise is nonsense.

Can we change our mind's in heaven?

This reminds me of my grandmother when I was a little boy. My grandmother refused to come out and sit with us at night because she had been taught that the streaks of light that irregularly appear in the night sky were the flaming souls of individuals that had been cast out of heaven, and we were witnessing them hurtling down to hell. The idea that one could be cast out of heaven upset my grandmother dreadfully, and she refused to come outside and be a witness to it. So apparently it is possible to be expelled from heaven. Maybe some individuals get fed up with singing God's praises 24/7 and ask for a demotion. Rather like when members ask Oliver to delete their DC&R account. Done!



A really bad day in heaven.