Which is it?

[Elijah John]

Matthew 15.24

He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

or

Matthew 28.19

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

What was Jesus mission, his intended audience?

How does one reconcile the two seemingly contradictory statements?

Is the "Risen Christ" on the same page as the pre-Easter, "historical Jesus"?

[Provoker]

[Replying to post 49 by paarsurrey1]Hi paarsurrey:
God said that because of Abraham, all the families of all the nations on the earth, will be blessed...not may be blessed.
The gospel promise begins with: A great nation of Abraham's children will... God did not say that if a great nation of Abraham's children is good enough, they might... We find out later in scripture that Abraham's children refers to anyone who shares Abraham's faith.
Having The faith of Abraham is not something which happens because one says he believes. Having the faith of Abraham will take over one's whole life. That's why Jesus said that he didn't want any disciples who would put their hand to the plow and turn back. God's faithful are naturally committed to leaving everything they hold dear to follow the coming Christ to the resurrection of the great nation which God promised will exist forever and bring peace on earth.
Believers don't follow Jesus because the promise won't be fulfilled without them, but because that kind of faith makes one want to be part of the fulfillment.
The way I see it is; when the body of Christ(the Christ corps) is large enough to possess the land defined by God in His gospel, the resurrection will take place. The leader of the Christ corps(the Christ) will be given the kingdom of David, and he will lead the kingdom to everlasting peace on earth.
He will make his enemies his footstool. He will rule them with a rod of iron. He will make them beat their swords into plowshares. He will not allow them to learn war anymore. Nation will no longer rise up against nation. That is the fulfillment of God's gospel: on earth peace, good will toward men.
Now this is all my opinion, and it was not taught to me by any denomination. I formed my opinions by reading the bible for the continuous, consistent, logical story which flows through it, from God's revelation of the gospel to Abraham.
Paul said; God preached the gospel first to Abraham saying; in thee shall all nations be blessed. Paul also said that anyone who preaches a different gospel should be cursed.
The priesthood which has covered up the bible story since the 4th century, had done a good job, but it is time for churchmen to start reading the whole bible and thinking for themselves.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 50 by Provoker]


"Now this is all my opinion, and it was not taught to me by any denomination. I formed my opinions by reading the bible for the continuous, consistent, logical story which flows through it, from God's revelation of the gospel to Abraham. "

'Out of these stones I can make children of Abraham'.

It appears you are pushing Judaic religion on to Christians.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 50 by Provoker]

Provoker wrote:

Now, this is all my opinion, and it was not taught to me by any denomination. I formed my opinions by reading the bible for the continuous, consistent, logical story which flows through it, from God's revelation of the gospel to Abraham.

One needs to read Bible another time intently. I believe that one's opinion is not error-free, please.
While one reads Bible a second time, one may keep among others following points in one's active perusal, please:

1. How could one claim about Bible OT to be logical, when it just mentions the claims but provides no reasons or argument for the claims made, in its text or in the near context, to be reasonable? One must have provided the reason part from one’s own mind to make it logical. Right, please?
2. Genesis is neither the literal nor the original Converse of One-True-God, nor written by Abraham nor written by Moses. It is an anonymous narrative that has reached us doctored by the narrators/scribes/clergy to suit their own objectives. Right, please?
3. I believe one could easily observe while reading Genesis that it is written in the third-person narrative. One-True-God would have written mostly in the first-person narrative if it would have been authored by Him. Right, please?

Suffice for the moment.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Anybody, please

Regards

__________

From Provoker Post 48 :
all the land between the Euphrates and the river of Egypt

Quote from paarsurrey1 Post 49:

Is this a legitimate way to set the boundaries of the countries in the world, please?
Is this promise valid even if the descendants of Abraham are wrong doers, please?:

[2:125] And remember when his Lord tried Abraham with certain commands which he fulfilled. He said, ‘I will make thee a Leader of men.’ Abraham asked, ‘And from among my offspring?’ He said, ‘My covenant does not embrace the transgressors.’
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... &verse=124

[Provoker]

[Replying to post 50 by Provoker]


"Now this is all my opinion, and it was not taught to me by any denomination. I formed my opinions by reading the bible for the continuous, consistent, logical story which flows through it, from God's revelation of the gospel to Abraham. "

'Out of these stones I can make children of Abraham'.

It appears you are pushing Judaic religion on to Christians.

Hi Monta:
No, I am not pushing any kind of religion. IMO, priest defined religions are always pagan. They exist so that a priesthood makes a living by warning people that there will be hell to pay if they don't pay the priesthood.
The Hebrew religion was pagan. The gospel which God preached to Abraham was the gospel of the coming great nation which will bless all nations with; on earth peace, good will toward men. That is the everlasting, unconditional, gospel which puts an end to religion for everyone who believes the God of Abraham, and it is the standard for faith in the God of Abraham. If one does not believe God's everlasting gospel promise, he does not have faith in the God who made the promise; the God of Abraham, Jesus, and Paul.
2000 years later, Jesus preached the gospel of the coming kingdom to backslidden Jews. Jesus was not bringing anything new, because the Jews had already believed, and backslidden from...the gospel of the coming kingdom. You must remember that the great nation became a kingdom before it fell, so in Jesus' day "the resurrection" referred to "the kingdom" rather than "the great nation".
A thousand years after the fall of the kingdom of covenant Israel, God said through angels; "the Christ will be given the kingdom of his father David". God was saying that there will be a resurrection of David's kingdom, and the Christ will become Solomon's successor on the throne of David. When Jesus was crucified, the Roman's mocked him by putting a sarcastic sign on the cross which said; "King of the Jews". IOW, there should be no doubt that the Romans killed Jesus because they believed that his plan was to take back the land of promise from Rome, and re-establish the kingdom of David. John 11: 45-55 says that the chief priests and Pharisees had Jesus killed because they feared that if they didn't, Rome might kill all the Jews. The chief priests and Pharisees were making it clear that Rome had something against Jesus, which was serious enough to get all the Jews killed, but all the Jews would be safe if Jesus was killed. Think about it:-)
This all goes back to God's everlasting gospel promise to Abraham, that a great nation of believers, will bless all nation with peace on earth, good will toward men.

God said that covenant Israel would exist forever, but it fell without achieving everlasting life. That means that covenant Israel must be raised from the dead, and made everlasting somehow. Since it fell because it broke the 10 commandments(God's laws), then after the resurrection God is going to make a new covenant with Israel, whereby He will write His laws on all the hearts of Israel, so they will do by nature the things contained in God's laws. God's law will be fulfilled and Israel will never break God's laws again. Of course, that means that Israel will go on to become the great everlasting nation it was chosen to become.
Remember, the fall of covenant Israel did not make God's promise any less everlasting.

Christianity began, a thousand years before the name was coined, when Israel fell, and those who remained faithful began to watch and wait for an anointed one(Christ). He will lead them(the Christ corps) to the resurrection of Israel, be given the kingdom of David, and bless all nations with peace on earth good will toward men.
Don't you just love it when everything fits together logically, rather than having to believe stuff which cannot be understood nor explained because it is a mystery?

[Provoker]

[Replying to post 50 by Provoker]

Provoker wrote:

Now, this is all my opinion, and it was not taught to me by any denomination. I formed my opinions by reading the bible for the continuous, consistent, logical story which flows through it, from God's revelation of the gospel to Abraham.

One needs to read Bible another time intently. I believe that one's opinion is not error-free, please.
While one reads Bible a second time, one may keep among others following points in one's active perusal, please:

1. How could one claim about Bible OT to be logical, when it just mentions the claims but provides no reasons or argument for the claims made, in its text or in the near context, to be reasonable? One must have provided the reason part from one’s own mind to make it logical. Right, please?
2. Genesis is neither the literal nor the original Converse of One-True-God, nor written by Abraham nor written by Moses. It is an anonymous narrative that has reached us doctored by the narrators/scribes/clergy to suit their own objectives. Right, please?
3. I believe one could easily observe while reading Genesis that it is written in the third-person narrative. One-True-God would have written mostly in the first-person narrative if it would have been authored by Him. Right, please?

Suffice for the moment.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Anybody, please

Regards

__________

From Provoker Post 48 :
all the land between the Euphrates and the river of Egypt

Quote from paarsurrey1 Post 49:

Is this a legitimate way to set the boundaries of the countries in the world, please?
Is this promise valid even if the descendants of Abraham are wrong doers, please?:

[2:125] And remember when his Lord tried Abraham with certain commands which he fulfilled. He said, ‘I will make thee a Leader of men.’ Abraham asked, ‘And from among my offspring?’ He said, ‘My covenant does not embrace the transgressors.’
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... &verse=124

Hello PS1:
The only thing I am saying about the bible, is that it has a logical story flowing through it.
I don't think the bible was written to tell this story, but because the books of the bible record believed history over a long period of time, a little detective work reveals the story.
Let me attempt to show you the basic continuous, consistent, logical story I see:
Abraham predicted that a great nation of those who believe Abraham's prediction, will inherit everlasting possession of all the land between the Euphrates and the river of Egypt, and will bless all the families of all nations with everlasting peace on earth, good will toward men.
Abraham's descendants through Isaac, and believers in Abe's prediction, spent 400 years in pagan Egypt.
Moses led them out of Egypt, and he obviously had the faith of Abraham, because he had the children of Israel promise that they would keep 10 commandments-of-national unity, and become the great everlasting nation of Abraham's prediction.
During king Solomon's reign, Israel broke it's promise to keep the 10 commandments, and the kingdom fell, making Solomon the last king to rule covenant Israel.
Since Abraham's prediction is everlasting, then covenant Israel must rise from the dead in order to fulfill it. Covenant Israel can only be raised from the dead by people who are committed to the fulfillment of Abraham's prediction, because that was the basis on which covenant Israel was established in the first place.
Some were so anxious for the predicted world peace that they assembled together to work toward the resurrection of covenant Israel. They began to watch and wait for an anointed military leader(the Christ) who could lead them(the Christ corps) to the resurrection of covenant Israel, ascend David's resurrected throne, and fulfill Abe's prediction by bringing everlasting peace on earth.
When the babylonian captivity ended, those Jews who were faithful to Abraham's prediction, returned to foreign ruled Judea, committed to the resurrection of David's kingdom.
When Rome captured the land, it recognized that the Jews were zealous for a Jewish kingdom, so Rome gave them Herod, and convinced them that he was the king they had been waiting for. The majority of the Jews became the backslidden lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus was a faithful Jew who began to re-preach the Abrahamic good news to backslidden Jews, in order to bring them back to the fold. Jesus and his gospel became a threat to the national security, and the chief priests and Pharisees feared that Rome would kill all the Jews if all the Jews returned to the faith. The saw Jesus' death as the only solution, so they capture Jesus and turned him over to Rome, which was looking for him anyway. Jesus was killed to keep Rome from killing all the Jews...John 11:45-55
The proof that Jesus was not killed as a sacrifice for sins, is in the fact that his stated mission was to heal the backsliding of the Jews. However, at the first sign of any Jews returning to the faith, Jesus was killed. This brought an untimely end to Jesus' stated mission.
I used Ocham's razor on the bible, and trimmed away all the fat:-) Do you see the story?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 54 by Provoker]

"Pharisees feared that Rome would kill all the Jews if all the Jews returned to the faith. The saw Jesus' death as the only solution, so they capture Jesus and turned him over to Rome, which was looking for him anyway. Jesus was killed to keep Rome from killing all the Jews...John 11:45-55 "

This is not a proper quote, you have put it into your own words .

Whatever Jesus ever said or did or was done to Him as in crucifiction, it
was all preordained. As He said - for this purpose I came into the the world,
and also that no-one takes his life from him but that He gives it freely,
(as per John 3:16).

[Provoker]

[Replying to post 54 by Provoker]

"Pharisees feared that Rome would kill all the Jews if all the Jews returned to the faith. The saw Jesus' death as the only solution, so they capture Jesus and turned him over to Rome, which was looking for him anyway. Jesus was killed to keep Rome from killing all the Jews...John 11:45-55 "

This is not a proper quote, you have put it into your own words .

Hello Monta:
I added the reference, and that should suffice for a "proper" quote:-) I put it in my own words so you would see how I interpreted it. "Proper" quotes mean nothing if they are not made in one's own words, because not everyone interprets the same. All who have the same version of the bible, are still divided into thousands of doctrinally disagreeing denominations. eg: Jehovah's witnesses and Pentecostals can both say amen to everything in the bible, so "proper" quotes mean nothing in a discussion. Right?

Whatever Jesus ever said or did or was done to Him as in crucifiction, it
was all preordained. As He said - for this purpose I came into the the world,
and also that no-one takes his life from him but that He gives it freely,
(as per John 3:16).

Everything that has ever happened, and will happen, is "predestined" by God's foreknowledge. God saw the end from the beginning.
Also, we have to remember that the translators interpreted and paraphrased the text in the context of their own preconceptions, or the preconceptions of their bosses.

Regarding John 3:16, let me point out that king Solomon was God's only begotten son, and Solomon was the last king of covenant Israel. The next king of covenant Israel will be Solomon's immediate successor, and according to the common rules of royal succession, may very well be referred to by Solomon's titles: Son of David, son of God, God's only begotten son, anointed one, etc.
Jesus' followers assumed that covenant Israel was about to be resurrected, and that Jesus would become the king, so they prematurely referred to Jesus by Solomon's titles. It was strategic for Rome to run with that idea and make Jesus the son of God, and spiritual king in a spiritual kingdom, because the gospel of the coming kingdom is the faith of Abraham, and it was a threat to the national security of the Roman Empire.
Can you see the bible story yet?

[JP Cusick]

[Replying to post 54 by Provoker]

"Pharisees feared that Rome would kill all the Jews if all the Jews returned to the faith. The saw Jesus' death as the only solution, so they capture Jesus and turned him over to Rome, which was looking for him anyway. Jesus was killed to keep Rome from killing all the Jews...John 11:45-55 "

This is not a proper quote, you have put it into your own words .

Whatever Jesus ever said or did or was done to Him as in crucifiction, it
was all preordained. As He said - for this purpose I came into the the world,
and also that no-one takes his life from him but that He gives it freely,
(as per John 3:16).

I say you are both correct - and you both are just talking about two (2) different aspects.

Provoker is right concerning John 11:45-55 in that this is why the Pharisees and the Jews and the Romans killed Jesus.

Monta is saying as to why Jesus sacrificed His self, and why the Father sacrificed His son.

These are both correct - because both are different priorities and different views of the same events.

[Provoker]

[Replying to post 57 by JP Cusick]Hi JP:
IMO, Jesus did not offer himself for sacrifice, but he was willing to die for the cause. What I find significant is that Jesus' stated mission was to preach the gospel and heal the sick(backslidden) He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to heal their backsliding by preaching the gospel of the coming kingdom, which the Jews had backslidden from. Jesus' parable of the 90 and 9, seems to make it clear that Jesus was committed to bringing every last backslidden Jew back to the fold.
After Lazarus' resurrection, backslidden Jews began to join Jesus, and immediately he was killed. Jesus' death brought an untimely end to his stated mission, and may well be the reason the Jews are still backslidden today.
Sacrifice for sins is a pagan aspect which existed long before God revealed the gospel to Abraham. Making Jesus the sacrifice for sins, simply maintains the pagan doctrine of sacrifice for sins.
Sacrifice for sins does not change the fact that sin has been committed, so the only reason for sacrifice is to teach the sinner a lesson. If Jesus' death was a sacrifice for sins, then it served no purpose because the sinner is not taught a lesson. God is said to be a just God, so letting someone get away with sin is not justice. Sacrificing an innocent person in place of the guilty, makes it a double injustice. Not only that, but murder is illegal in any legal system, so a just God would not have someone murdered, as a sacrifice which served no purpose anyway.
Christianity as taught in churches, is all based on clichés which no one thinks about. If they thought logically about them they would realize that the priesthood is doing a con job on them.
Paul said that God preached the gospel first to Abraham saying; in thee shall all nations be blessed. Paul also said that anyone who preaches a different gospel should be cursed.
If you go back to the book of Genesis and read the gospel as preached to Abraham by God, you will find that it is God's promise that a great everlasting Abrahamic nation is going to bless all the families of all the nations on the earth.
Then we find out much later that the Christ will be given the resurrected throne of David, and bring peace on earth, good will toward men.
He will make his enemies his footstool. He will rule them with a rod of iron. He will make them beat their swords into plowshares. He will not allow them to learn war anymore, and nation will no longer rise up against nation...God's gospel. Everyone on the earth will be blessed with everlasting peace on earth, brought about by a great everlasting nation.
In Jesus' day, and in Constantine's day, the land defined by God in His gospel promise, was in the possession of Rome. God's gospel was clearly a threat to the national security of the Roman Empire. Think about John 11:45-55, and understand that God did not sacrifice Jesus. Rome sacrificed him and said they were doing god's work...LOL

[Monta]

[Replying to post 58 by Provoker]


"Paul said that God preached the gospel first to Abraham saying; in thee shall all nations be blessed. Paul also said that anyone who preaches a different gospel should be cursed.
If you go back to the book of Genesis and read the gospel as preached to Abraham by God, you will find that it is God's promise that a great everlasting Abrahamic nation is going to bless all the families of all the nations on the earth. "

Admire your passion and dedication but it seems your religious faith has been undermined by what appears to be Christian Zionism as it is all politically based.
Jesus never based his teaching on Genesis or 'that great everlasting...'

He did say 'behold i make everything new'. He also said that His Kingdom is not of this world and never said that one day it will be.