Willum's crack-pot premise #127: Syria

[Willum]

The word/people/nation/name/angel "Israel," has perplexed me for some time, and I know there is a brain or two on this site that can assist in unraveling the mystery.

So, premise #1 is that Israel does not mean what it is supposed to mean in Hebrew. I can look that one up, and it is dismissed for purposes of this OP.

Assuming that it has an uncover-able meaning, just as Michael means "God of Mecca," Aeriel is the "God of Summer," and Uriel is simple the "God of Ur."

I'd like you to examine Israel. The obvious interpretation is the God (or angel) or Isr.

But what is Isr?

Here is what I think:
All these names were first referenced about the same time: 1000 BC, around the time of the Assyrian Empire.
Also monotheism was first popular, the worship of a form of Zeus, in modern day Syria.

Finally, Assyria, or Syria, both of these are close enough phonetically to Israel (remember vowels were non-standard 3000 years ago,) to perhaps mean that Israel is Assyriel or Syriel.

So the question is, are the Israelites actually taking their name from Syria/Assyria?

Can a stronger premise be researched? or refuted?

I appreciate your consideration, research or research recommendations in the matter.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

Hebrew is the only surviving Canaanite language. You should look at archeological research into the site of Ugrit as it really highlights early Hebrew language shifting from its Canaanite origins.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 2 by DanieltheDragon]

Lebanese would disagree...
I get all my useful Hebrew translations from Canaanite...

This is how one discovers that Angel names are actually Canaanite.
Ba'el, is 'lord god.'
Etc...

Unfortunately the dictionary is lapse in anticipating what a root may have become...
Hebrew garbles it's translations - like Michael, "who is like god?" allegedly, but there is just not room for a sentence in the compound word...

anyway, Assyria seems reasonable... Assyrial is very close to Israel...
and it hs interesting implications...

It might mean the Holy Land is actually Syria for example.

[JP Cusick]

Israel does not mean what it is supposed to mean in Hebrew.

Michael means "God of Mecca,"
Aeriel is the "God of Summer,"
Uriel is simple the "God of Ur."

I'd like you to examine Israel. The obvious interpretation is the God (or angel) or Isr.

But what is Isr?

So the question is, are the Israelites actually taking their name from Syria/Assyria?

Can a stronger premise be researched? or refuted?

Ba'el, is 'lord god.'

I like the several name recognition that you give above.

And I agree that the name Israel does not mean as so popularly given as = He who wrestles with God, or "who prevails with God", or some other version of the same.

I have heard it said that the name comes from the Egyptian Gods, as in the mother Goddess Isis (Is) and the sun God Ra (ra) along with the Canaanite God El, and joining those 3 together into the one name.

Is-ra-el means Isis - Ra - El.

Giving it the name of "Assyrial" would still not give us any meaning to the word, except meaning = coming from Syria, which is not much of a meaning.

[JP Cusick]

I have heard it said that the name comes from the Egyptian Gods, as in the mother Goddess Isis (Is) and the sun God Ra (ra) along with the Canaanite God El, and joining those 3 together into the one name.

Is-ra-el means Isis - Ra - El.

I appreciate getting tokens for this - but let us not forget that it could be accurate or it could be completely wrong.

However there is another twist, and we need to look at it from the ancient view.

So it could mean that Isis the mother and Ra the Father God thereby had the baby God El, or as Elohim being plural as in many baby Gods.

Isis plus Ra = El
Mother plus Father equal child.
Or Isis + Ra = Elohim.
Mother + Father = children.

As such Israel could mean "Son of God" or the Prince of God - being the son (or daughter) of the mother and Father Gods - or it could be plural as = The children of God.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 5 by JP Cusick]

I rather like that you believe it is a kind of fictitious word, or pun made between Hebrew and Ra and Isis.
When you consider what the Bible did to Ba'al, an otherwise noble god, and Yahweh's father, no less, it makes sense that that kind of twisted pun would be right in the name.

I am otherwise going to need to retreat and think on it some...

[CSMM]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]


If you look at Philo's work, the world was created through the work of Wisdom from Proverbs 8. Even the Gospel of the Hebrews, that Hebrew followers of Jesus used, has the Holy SPirit as Jesus' Mother. Abraham supposedly only knew EL SHaddai, according to what YHWH told Moses. Shad is breast in Hebrew. Shaddai may have been the female side of Elohim. If you look at the pantheon of Gods in the region, EL was the Father God and Ashera was the Mother. She was known as Qedesh in Egypt and the word means holy. As WIsdom in Proverbs, she was the tree of life. In Proverbs 8 she was created and in verse 30, mistranslated into English, she was the amown. The meaning is Chief architect or master craftsman. Her symbols were snakes and trees. In the Bible she is hidden as Elah and turned into oak or teribinth trees such as where Abraham saw God. There was also a tree next to sanctuaries in the Bible, and when Josiah purged the Temple he got rid of the Asherah and Hezekiah got rid of the snake that represented Wisdom, the Mother.
IsraEL is most likely a combination of Ashera and EL, like the conbo EL SHaddai as the Elohim Abraham knew. YHWH was only a son. The Dead Sea Scrolls Deuteronomy 32:8 makes it clear as the nations were divided according to the number of the sons of God. The LXX said the same, or also used Angels of God. YHWH only inherited Jacob from EL ELyon, El most high.
There is probably a hint too when Abraham's wife was named SRI
Genesis 1 basically says Elohim created man in their image; male and female.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 7 by CSMM]

I hate to say it, but I think we have a winner.
Ashera, this makes the people of Israel a further corruption of the word, going from a goddess to a people, but with all other considerations, this makes the most sense.

The god Ur, is associated with the city of Ur, it makes sense, but it makes the people of Israel not the people of Yahweh, but the people of his wife, Ashera.

Which, before you poo-poo, I bet somewhere mostly destroyed, but not completely, we will be able to find a story about Ashera and Yahwey giving birth to their people.

[bjs]

And I agree that the name Israel does not mean as so popularly given as = He who wrestles with God, or "who prevails with God", or some other version of the same.

Out of curiosity, why?

The prefix “yi� normally means that the word is third person, masculine, and singular. Should we no longer follow this basic rule of Hebrew grammar?

Do you think that we should stop translating “sarah� (pronounced saw-rah) as “to contend, strive or wrestle�?

Should the suffix “el� no longer be translated as “God�?

The long and the short of my question is this: Is there a reason that in this specific case you think we should ignore all the normal rules of Hebrew grammar and definitions to come up with an entirely new definition for the word?

[JP Cusick]

The god Ur, is associated with the city of Ur, it makes sense, but it makes the people of Israel not the people of Yahweh, but the people of his wife, Ashera.

The name "Israel" never refers to Yahweh.

So even if you interpret the name as = Ashera-El, then that would be Ashera-God, not Ashera-Yahweh.

El or Elohim are not synonymous with Yahweh.

The Ashera-El could be translated as mother-God.