Why would God, who is spirit, need something physical

[Elijah John]

Why would God, who is Spirit, need something physical like blood for appeasement, or to give Himself permisson to forgive the sins of humanity?

Isn't it far more likely (and more Scriptural) that He looks for more Spiritual qualities in order to forgive sins? Things like basic repentance and a willingness to forgive our fellow humans?

(Hosea 6.6, Micah 6.6-6.8, the Lord's prayer, the Beattitudes, the Parables of Jesus etc, etc, etc.)

[brianbbs67]

The point was Sacrifice. It wasn't that the OT people had to kill an animal, that animal was food and clothing and tools and whatever else they used it for. So, it would be like giving up half your groceries whenever you made a mistake.

[Monta]

Why would God, who is Spirit, need something physical like blood for appeasement, or to give Himself permisson to forgive the sins of humanity?

Isn't it far more likely (and more Scriptural) that He looks for more Spiritual qualities in order to forgive sins? Things like basic repentance and a willingness to forgive our fellow humans?

(Hosea 6.6, Micah 6.6-6.8, the Lord's prayer, the Beattitudes, the Parables of Jesus etc, etc, etc.)

I don't know where you are at. Judaic times which would have lasted about 3000ys untill Christ' descent, or are we talking about pre Jewish times as many things written in OT have been taken from earlier writings therefore - ancient.

What were people like in those day?
Were they people with intelligence and reason or man in the making?
'Man' did not just happen at the big bang right?

Today we do thing and want to know 'why'.
An infant will put a spoon in his mouth and does not ask why.

Before we judge 'God', have to know what are we talking about.

[JP Cusick]

I don't think that it is what Adonai needs, but what we need. The problem with repentance without sacrifice is that it doesn't have as much personal impact. On this thread some are shock by the mere idea of the sheading of animal blood as a memorial. However, many of those same people have no problem with sheading of animal blood for a casual neighborhood gathering. To be fair, few people these days actually do the sheading of blood, but buy their offerings in neat plastic packages at the grocery store. I hear that the gutting of the kill is a common right of passage for young boys in the hunting community. Do you think that there would be such opposition to blood sacrifice, if we all had to gather and prepare our own animal protein?

I say we need to remember one of the BIGGEST doctrines of the entire Bible which goes like this:

Hosea 6:
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

This text was repeated twice in the NT by Jesus:

Matthew 9:
13a But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice:

Matthew 12:
7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
-

The point is that God wanted people to see the blood sacrifice of a slain animal and to have mercy on the animal and thereby to stop sinning - it was not for people to embrace the slaughter as fun for food.

[Claire Evans]

"It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD" (Lev 1:9 NIV)

God doesn't have senses so how could He smell this aroma?

Are you a bible literalist?

Depends on what we are talking about. The literal translation of the OT says Yahweh was a physical being.




Also, is this literal?

Exodus 33:20
But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"

[Elijah John]

I don't think that it is what Adonai needs, but what we need. The problem with repentance without sacrifice is that it doesn't have as much personal impact. On this thread some are shock by the mere idea of the sheading of animal blood as a memorial. However, many of those same people have no problem with sheading of animal blood for a casual neighborhood gathering. To be fair, few people these days actually do the sheading of blood, but buy their offerings in neat plastic packages at the grocery store. I hear that the gutting of the kill is a common right of passage for young boys in the hunting community. Do you think that there would be such opposition to blood sacrifice, if we all had to gather and prepare our own animal protein?

What about those of us who dabble in vegitarianism? The most certain way to be Kosher and Halal, by the way.

I wonder sometimes if the whole sacrificial institution was a scam so that Priests and Levites would always be well fed. Only half joking here.

OK , you say that blood sacrifice is what people need, not God, correct? Well when I do something wrong, repentance and apologies usually suffice. I don't feel the need to offer an animal sacrifice, nor do I feel the need to interpret Jesus martyrdom as a sacrifice.

So how about in my case, and for folks like me who also do not feel the need to offer blood, human or animal?

Some of us believe that God "desires mercy, not sacrifice".

[Monta]

[Replying to post 15 by Elijah John]


"OK , you say that blood sacrifice is what people need, not God, correct? Well when I do something wrong, repentance and apologies usually suffice. I don't feel the need to offer an animal sacrifice, nor do I feel the need to interpret Jesus martyrdom as a sacrifice. "

We have no idea of man's intellectual or spiritual state at the time when these laws were given.
We do know that each animal represented some affection in man. If you have killed another man a particular animal is to killed as an offering for forgiveness. Did those people have any concept of the divine being or the creater, did they have intellectual ability to reason?
What stage of their development are we talking about?

Be it ritual of sacrifice or prayer or contemplation...the aim is
making connection with the divine.

I read that Jews still offer animal sacrifice.

[polonius]

Why would God, who is Spirit, need something physical like blood for appeasement, or to give Himself permisson to forgive the sins of humanity?

Isn't it far more likely (and more Scriptural) that He looks for more Spiritual qualities in order to forgive sins? Things like basic repentance and a willingness to forgive our fellow humans?

(Hosea 6.6, Micah 6.6-6.8, the Lord's prayer, the Beattitudes, the Parables of Jesus etc, etc, etc.)

If you don't believe in a spiritual God who can be appeased by blood sacrifices then doesn't this negate the entire Old Testament God?

After all, it was the Old Testament that gave birth to the idea that God requires blood sacrifices to atone for sins. In fact, this is the very basis for Christianity. Jesus is supposed to be the blood sacrifice to end all blood sacrifices. He was the ultimate blood sacrifice.

And all of this follows from the Old Testament.

RESPONSE: Have you considered that the first seven books of the Bible are a fiction written by men?

In the Old days men practiced blood sacrifice.

When Jesus was executed by the Romans as an insurrectionist (allowing it to be believed that he was the Messiah and therefore a king), the way to justify his execution was to claim that Jesus was not punishment for a crime against Rome really atonement for our sins.

Paul used this story to make Jesus' death for insurrection against Rome more palatable to early Christians as a sacrifice for our sins.

And the story caught on!

[JP Cusick]

What about those of us who dabble in vegitarianism? The most certain way to be Kosher and Halal, by the way.

I wonder sometimes if the whole sacrificial institution was a scam so that Priests and Levites would always be well fed. Only half joking here.

OK , you say that blood sacrifice is what people need, not God, correct? Well when I do something wrong, repentance and apologies usually suffice. I don't feel the need to offer an animal sacrifice, nor do I feel the need to interpret Jesus martyrdom as a sacrifice.

So how about in my case, and for folks like me who also do not feel the need to offer blood, human or animal?

Some of us believe that God "desires mercy, not sacrifice".

I agree with this comment, that the point of animal sacrifice was for the people to have mercy for the animal, and to stop doing the sacrifices.

God does not want the blood sacrifices - God wants us to have mercy.

Most likely the mentality of those times (as Monta said = their stage of development) was that the people did see killing animals and feeding on their carcass as a reprehensible thing to do - most people today just refuse to consider the cruelty and barbarism of the food they eat.

It is much harder to have mercy for other people, especially having mercy for violent criminals, but when we have mercy for the defenseless animals then it becomes far easier to have mercy on the evils of other people.

Christians celebrate Jesus being crucified as if the blood of Jesus is a wonderful thing - and again people miss the point that God wants us to have mercy.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 17 by polonius.advice]


"RESPONSE: Have you considered that the first seven books of the Bible are a fiction written by men? "

Those who do not know that the first seven books of Genesis are copied from the ancient writings, might.
Important to keep in mind that they are written in the language of correspondences and have no relation to literal interpretation.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 17 by polonius.advice]


"RESPONSE: Have you considered that the first seven books of the Bible are a fiction written by men? "

Those who do not know that the first seven books of Genesis are copied from the ancient writings, might.
Important to keep in mind that they are written in the language of correspondences and have no relation to literal interpretation.

they are written in the language of correspondences and have no relation to literal interpretation

This need further elaboration, please.
Regards