Why are some immune to miracles?

[Willum]

This is a very neat reply by JP:

Yet another way to look at it is:

If Jesus arrived today, as he allegedly did 2000 years ago, would anyone believe him? Would you believe him?
Put yourself in your own shoes.
Some migrant/refugee claims she had a virgin birth, several years after the conception event took place.
The father only knows he is not the father.

Claims of healing that have less aplomb than evangelistic roadshows.
He gets tortured somewhere and comes back from the dead, according to some source.
Assume this is recorded.

Do you believe it?

Why do you believe it out of a Book written 300 years after the fact?

This is one of the big miracles, because the Gospel accounts do stand the test of time.

Many other beliefs and religions and philosophies have come and gone - yet this one about Jesus Christ remains and endures.

It is even arguable that this same Jesus of 2000 years ago is indeed the most powerful person in the entire world now into the 21st century.

The Gospels certainly do stand the test of time, despite their flaws.
Is there a miracle at work allowing many to believe what, to the plainly logical mind, is preposterous? Why are some of us immune to this miracle, or capable of changing our minds?

Or are those of us skeptics, just definitely not part of the chosen (some of us gratefully)?

[JehovahsWitness]

Or are those of us skeptics, just definitely not part of the chosen (some of us gratefully)?

Yes, I think that what you propose is definitely a possibility. I know that there is a scripture in the bible that could be interpreted by some to support what you suggest with your question.

MATTHEW 13:11
While to you it is granted to know the secrets of the Kingdom of the Heavens, to them it is not.

For those that are grateful for this, I can only say "Congratulations! ENJOY!"


JW

[JP Cusick]

The Gospels certainly do stand the test of time, despite their flaws.
Is there a miracle at work allowing many to believe what, to the plainly logical mind, is preposterous? Why are some of us immune to this miracle, or capable of changing our minds?

Or are those of us skeptics, just definitely not part of the chosen (some of us gratefully)?

The scriptures are here as a witness and a testimony so no person will ever say that they were not told.

No one can play stupid as if they did not know - because the scriptures are there as a witness and a testimony that the information was given and it is available to every person.

And to study the scriptures properly then we are to reject the preposterous and we are to seek the truth.

No person is immune to any of it.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

This is one of the big miracles, because the Gospel accounts do stand the test of time.

JP's response is pure argument from popularity. He intimates that the only way for the Gospel accounts to still be around and to still be believed by a wide percentage of people is if they are true.
He gives no credence to political and/or military power being used to convert people over the centuries.

The scriptures are here as a witness and a testimony so no person will ever say that they were not told.

Yes they can. It is possible, albeit with difficulty at least here in the West, to go through life without once ever reading scripture.
JP, let's say that that man is Bob. Other than sheer popularity of the religion, what reason would you give him from this thread to tell him to read scripture?

No one can play stupid as if they did not know - because the scriptures are there as a witness and a testimony that the information was given and it is available to every person.

Not so. In some countries, spreading of Christian scripture is frowned upon, to say the very least, if not outright illegal.

Your responses here completely ignore reality.

[marco]

Is there a miracle at work allowing many to believe what, to the plainly logical mind, is preposterous? Why are some of us immune to this miracle, or capable of changing our minds?

This is a clever encapsulation of truth. As a kid I believed absolutely that God was on my tongue when I received the host. Billions so believe. Tertullian believed because it was impossible or absurd. The human mind can receive the ridiculous as holy truth. It is almost miraculous that people believe absurdities, but when we see what students do in their various fields, what absurdities they write, what nonsense they endorse, is it miraculous that hoi polloi accept silliness as truth? The acceptance of the absurd demonstrates our level of sophistication. Yes, we have boarded the moon but we have not completely discarded our clubs.

[JP Cusick]

JP, let's say that that man is Bob. Other than sheer popularity of the religion, what reason would you give him from this thread to tell him to read scripture?

It is a matter if any person wants to seek the truth, and to learn history, and to study humanity, then each person needs to read the Bible, and I say they need to learn every other scripture in the world along with the Bible.

There is one big point that even if a person rejects the notion of God then still we do know that the Bible has directly influenced history for the past 2000 years (give or take a few hundred years) and so our own past history of our forebears can not be understood without knowing that same Bible which has been instrumental through the centuries.

The Bible has been read and embraced by Emperors by Kings and Queens, by Caesars by Presidents and Congressman, and by the common people, so to reject the book and to never read the book is to reject our shared humanity.

Not so. In some countries, spreading of Christian scripture is frowned upon, to say the very least, if not outright illegal.

Your responses here completely ignore reality.

I did not say Christian scriptures, as I am not hung up on Christianity.

The word of God goes to every person, and if any person seeks more (seeks the full truth) then it is always available to those who truly seek it.

That is the miracle that it is available for anyone who puts forth the effort.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 4 by rikuoamero]

Part of the crux of my issue was that people do accept these preposterous claims.
Only an insane person would do so, usually, so perhaps a miracle is at work getting people to believe this truth in the face of obvious logical and physical improbabilities.

I am just proposing a solution based on the assumption there is something to the religion.
God wants to save people, so he created a miracle making his chosen believe what the rest of us can't otherwise see as other than nonsense.

[marco]

The Bible has been read and embraced by Emperors by Kings and Queens, by Caesars by Presidents and Congressman, and by the common people, so to reject the book and to never read the book is to reject our shared humanity.

Not so. In some countries, spreading of Christian scripture is frowned upon, to say the very least, if not outright illegal.

Your responses here completely ignore reality.

We ignore history at our peril - that is true. Should we read Mao's Little Red Book to understand what went on in China? The bible influenced King James 1 to set up witch trials and write a tome on witchcraft. It is therefore necessary to assess both the good and the bad that the Bible has done by way of influence. Some would say it has done more harm than good but I agree that we should read its pages, as we should read the Quran.

[imhereforyou]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

Is there a miracle at work allowing many to believe what, to the plainly logical mind, is preposterous? Why are some of us immune to this miracle, or capable of changing our minds?

Or are those of us skeptics, just definitely not part of the chosen (some of us gratefully)?

I have the following thought that's been working around in my noggin' for a while that c/would apply to miracles as well:
Some people, somehow, are able to manifest what they believe in.
Some believers see angels while others don't; some see demons while others don't; some have miraculous happenings while others don't....some see ghosts while others don't; some see gnomes while others don't......

Seems like for those who believer and want something, they can make it happen or experience it while others can't or simply don't.
Either that or God shows favoritism to some but not others, which doesn't seem too loving at all, really.
Or, there's some celestial joke being played on us all that has zero to do with and supreme god as understood currently.

[JP Cusick]

It is therefore necessary to assess both the good and the bad that the Bible has done by way of influence.

I see it as significant that in the very beginning of the Bible as in Genesis 2:16 - 3:24, it tells us not to judge by the poisoned knowledge of good or bad, and certainly not to act off of that same poisoned knowledge, and so to assess both the "good and the bad" that people have done in the name of the Bible is really absurd.

The Bible declares from its first pages - do not do that, and then people just do the poison anyway - and then now we judge the Bible based on the sinful people - which is completely absurd.

What the Bible has truly done through the centuries is that the Bible declares what is wrong and it tells anyone who reads it what is right, and so it is a witness and a testimony against sinful humanity.

And it can be viewed that the "two witnesses" from Revelation 11:3-12, are the Bible and the Qur'an, calculating the 1260 years from 610-661 CE, as the oldest known printing of the Qur'an.