Republican tribalism? Is there a place for moderates?

[DanieltheDragon]

I love my Sirius radio. The hundreds of channels available and more importantly glorious talk radio. While I'm sitting in the pickup lane for my kid as he is released from school I enjoy sitting back and listening to political talk radio.

A rather nasty trend I have been noticing is how dramatically different conservative talk radio has become. There has always been tribalism in politics whether your democrat or republican. Usually ire is directed at the other tribe. Trump has changed things. A schism if you will has formed. Instead of railing against the other tribe. Conservatives are railing against each other. What used to be a simmering distaste for the less fervent conservatives. Has turned into unadulterated ire.

The Roy Moore situation couldn't be more revealing. You have the Hannity's and Wilko's vilifying Mitch McConnel because McConnel wants a pedophile to step out of the race. Now it's not just the "libs" they are now railing against "mainstream republicans" often calling them things like the "republican wing of the Democratic Party". People like Michael Steele and Joe Scarborough are the enemy never mind that one was the head of the RNC and the other was a republican senator.

Has the extremist wing of the Republican Party taken over completely?

Is there room for moderate republicans in the New Republican Party?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 7 by DanieltheDragon]

Is it fact? It seems awfully coincidental timing to be courageous.

It might be a sign that you arent moderate if you think i am defending him?

Consider Jesus on motes and logs in the eye.

He signed a little girls yearbook and his denials amounts to, "I dated lots of young girls"&"I never dated a girl without her mother's permission".

It also happens to coincide with a lot of sexual harassers and assault are getting burned. He only denied the 14 year old accuser and the attempted rape accuser. Heck even people voting for him in the Alabama government don't deny the women's claims they just think it's more important to have a republican in the senate.

Sexual harrasers are getting burned right now. I would expect more people we all are looked up to are going to have embarrassing secrets revealed in the coming months. Charlie Rose just got burned yesterday. At a certain point it has to move from the it's suspect category to the he probably did it category Moore has 9 accusers who knows how many by next week. If it was one or two I could see your point.

But back to the topic at hand because I share strong opinions about a likely "child sexual pursuer", I am somehow being antagonistic to the far right? The idea that if I don't vote and support lockstep with what the far right wants I am antagonistic is exactly what I am talking about. Well I guess that's fine then, I could accept that label. That is not what a moderate refers to though. Moderate is referring to policy not attitude. It seems a more moderate approach in policy is not welcome.

So my question to you really is should people who share policy approaches like Susan Collins Darrel Isa and John McCain be a part of the Republican Party?

[Furrowed Brow]

I am not American so my experience of American radio is limited. I have spent the last few years - mainly since 2010 - watching and listening to multiple sources on youtube including alt-right commentators.

Since Trump came to power I have noticed a deterioration and increasing twitchiness amongst those who support Trump. I put this down to Trump's obvious incompetence and man child persona that manages to parse everything into an example of just how best he is. It is an embarrassment to the United States and it is making Trump a laughing stock outside of the US.

There is truth in the complaint much of the mainstream who will not give Trump benefit of the doubt are indeed out to get him and enjoy painting him as a clown. But the loudest complaints are from those that either got on the bandwagon with Obama is a communist, liar, Kenyan, traitor, homosexual, married a transgender or made little complaints about those attempts to slur Obama. So I don't see the alt-right twitchiness coming from the media's anti Trump bias - unless they have amnesia about their complicity in the anti Obama stuff. It is far more to do with the the denial of the fact Trump is really is an embarrassment and denying the growing sense the wheels are coming off. There is a desperation about it and the tension from all that denial is leaking out.

Trump copied Obama and effectively ran on a ticket for hope n' change. The difference between the two is that Obama didn't mean it and had no meat on the bone and as history has shown he was really the status quo candidate probably chosen to disarm the left's criticism of neo-con wars, saving the bankers and so on. Obamacare was Romneycare, he continued to sign the provision in the NDAA that removes habeas corpus, he persecuted whistle blowers more then any other president, and under Obama the American economy limped on.

Trump - who is not a deep thinker may actually have meant some of what he promised at the moment he made the promise - will introduce as much fundamental change as Obama. He is another cypher. Just a gaudy one. All those blue collar workers and dust belt that voted for Trump are soon going to realise they voted for a multi millionaire whose policies and first inclination is to comfort the rich and afflict the poor. When the penny drops his support base will wane. If not impeached and Trump goes the full term it will be obvious he has made little difference to the lives of working people. In this sense he will be another Obama. I think there will be some very angry people who thought they were going to see Trump make real change. But really all Trump can offer is just more of the same old impulse to cut taxes, deregulate, hand more power to the corporations, and keep faith with trickle down economics. The trend towards increasing authoritarianism started with the Patriot Act and ramped up by Obama will see no reversal under Trump. He has no answers to America's problems save build a wall to prevent more poor people arriving. But neither do the Republican outside of Trump have an answer. And that I suspect is why there is rancour amongst the republicans. They know the public is thirsty for some real change but no one has a clue how to provide that change. Their instinct is to keep doing what they have been doing for the last forty years and yet they know that will not save them. Suffering all that cognitive dissonance people are getting shirty with one another.

However there is one group that is presently winning. The lack of ideas is allowing what author, political commentator and activist Chris Hedges calls Christian fascists to fill a power vacuum.

If we do not act, American fascists, clutching Christian crosses, waving American flags and orchestrating mass recitations of the pledge of allegiance, united behind the ludicrous figure of Donald Trump, will ride this rage to power.

It remains to be seen if Chris Hedges doom laden predictions comes to pass. But the Christian right are clearly influencing the Whitehouse in a way not seen before.

For the moment the greater stress falls on the Republicans because they are in power. But the Democrats look in poor shape too. What appears to be in danger is the two party system that offers very little difference on economics. Policies only differ substantively on social questions like abortion, gender and race. Issues that mean little to the oligarchs and plutocrats that have been running America for a very long time. People get to vote on those issues as they don't interfere with profit margins. Again I refer to Chris Hedges who regularly points out in interviews you cannot vote against the interest of Goldman Sachs, Exxon Oil, Lockheed Martin and so on. These behemoths back both sides.

Ditto a vote for Trump.

[Divine Insight]

Since Trump came to power I have noticed a deterioration and increasing twitchiness amongst those who support Trump. I put this down to Trump's obvious incompetence and man child persona that manages to parse everything into an example of just how best he is. It is an embarrassment to the United States and it is making Trump a laughing stock outside of the US.

Absolutely an embarrassment to America. Trump is extremely stupid for one thing which is an absolute embarrassment for the USA. But he also has no understanding of democracy at all. He thinks the USA is his personal toy and that he speaks for America as a dictator. He's playing the republicans for the fools that they are. He's trying to get a huge tax cut through for the filthy rich that will actually hurt the average Americans big time. And his tactic is to simply embarrass the republican fools to go along with it because if they don't pass something they are going to look like the fools they are. However, if they pass this tax bill they are still going to end up looking like fools. So the republicans are in a lose-lose situation and trump is playing them all for fools. The fact that they are dancing to his tune only verifies that they are indeed fools.

Trump isn't even a Republican. He's a Narcissistic. He doesn't give a hoot about the republicans. As long as he can play with his personal new toy of the United States of America, that's all he cares about. He doesn't care about Americans.

For the moment the greater stress falls on the Republicans because they are in power.

But the Republicans* aren't in power. Currently they are nothing more than spineless puppets on strings that Donald Trump is pulling. They have absolutely no power of their own at all.

*Please note: Just for the record. I'm talking about Republicans who are holding elected offices. I'm not referring to the general masses who might identify with the Republican party and therefore call themselves Republicans.

But the Democrats look in poor shape too. What appears to be in danger is the two party system that offers very little difference on economics. Policies only differ substantively on social questions like abortion, gender and race. Issues that mean little to the oligarchs and plutocrats that have been running America for a very long time. People get to vote on those issues as they don't interfere with profit margins. Again I refer to Chris Hedges who regularly points out in interviews you cannot vote against the interest of Goldman Sachs, Exxon Oil, Lockheed Martin and so on. These behemoths back both sides.

Ditto a vote for Trump.

You got it! Very observant to be sure. You've been paying attention apparently more so than the American people.

However there is one group that is presently winning. The lack of ideas is allowing what author, political commentator and activist Chris Hedges calls Christian fascists to fill a power vacuum.

Chris Hedges wrote:
If we do not act, American fascists, clutching Christian crosses, waving American flags and orchestrating mass recitations of the pledge of allegiance, united behind the ludicrous figure of Donald Trump, will ride this rage to power.

It remains to be seen if Chris Hedges doom laden predictions comes to pass. But the Christian right are clearly influencing the Whitehouse in a way not seen before.

Yes, there is definitely an uprising of Christian radical extremists led by obviously immoral preachers that do not even remotely reflect or represent the moral teachings of Christ.

These anti-Christ Christians are seeking to empower their anti-Christ views in the name of Christian Theocracy. Roy Moore and his supporters are a prime example. However Mike Pence also supports the anti-Christ Christian Theocratic movement.

If they had their way gays would be executed on sight. Clearly an anti-Christ mentality.

And these anti-Christ Christian groups are rising in power. However, I seriously doubt that they will get very far. In reality there are too many 'Good Christians' in America who ultimately won't support these anti-Christ Christians. So Christianity as a religion is heading toward its own personal civil war. We'll have to stay tuned and see how that chaos turns out.

One reason we aren't seeing a lot of civil war between the Christians yet is because the "Good Christians" tend to be meek and low-keyed. So they aren't prepared to start speaking out against the anti-Christ Christians just yet. And the anti-Christ Christians are extremely vocal and belligerent, so right now they are the ones who are making all the noise.

It may actually take someone like Roy Moore to become an actual senator before the good Christians start speaking out against him.

Right now the good Christians might be thinking these anti-Christ Christians aren't really a thread. They are just loud noise makers at the current moment.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes the good Christians to start speaking out against the anti-Christ Christians.

[bluethread]

Having a sexual encounter with a 14 year old is pedophilia no? Why does anyone feel compelled to defend him? his views are not even in line with the constitution.

Let's declare the verdict, then we can have the trial. After all, what is important is not the nature of the evidence, but the seriousness of the accusation, right? Unless,of course, one is on the "proper" side of the issues, in which case one can just be permitted to repeatedly deny the accusations long enough to then claim that the matter is old news. When will those moralistic republicans learn that only well meaning public servants, like the compassionate leftists, are permitted to ignore morality, and that the Constitution is a "living document" that is a matter of proclaimed good intentions, not some set of outmoded moral principles. OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

[bluethread]

However Mike Pence also supports the anti-Christ Christian Theocratic movement.

If they had their way gays would be executed on sight.

Documentation, please.

[Bust Nak]

Let's declare the verdict, then we can have the trial...

The verdict doesn't mattter to there who explicitly said they will continue to support Moore even if the allgations are true; it doesn't matter to those who tried to pass off dating girls half your age as no big deal.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 14 by bluethread]

Unfortunately a lot of these cases come down to he said she said. With that being said when it comes down to who or whom I am voting for at a certain point I have to ask myself does this person represent the moral values I want in office. He has admitted to dating young girls with their mothers permission. Now 16 might be legal in Alabama but I don't find it very appropriate. So for what he has admitted to or at the very least not denied is enough to not garner my support.

He isn't facing criminal prosecution, this is about who we want to represent us in government. I find it odd that instead of backing out and letting someone like Strange take over the far right is willing to burn it all down and get a democrat elected in a place like Alabama. Worse yet is if he does get elected what that says about the state where I grew up.

I just don't understand it anymore. Average republicans not even moderate republicans are being attacked for not supporting Roy Moore. Allegations like this used to be a death sentence for a politician. At a certain point I think we need to take a step back and reasses what we really stand for.

[bluethread]

Let's declare the verdict, then we can have the trial...

The verdict doesn't mattter to there who explicitly said they will continue to support Moore even if the allgations are true; it doesn't matter to those who tried to pass off dating girls half your age as no big deal.

Are you making a moral argument or a legal one? Given your argument I presume that you would consider many leaders around the world as not worthy of office, most notably, Brazilian president Michel Temer (76), who's wife is 34. I personally have moral problems with marital practices prior to the latter 20th century, but aren't you a proponent of separation of church and state?

[Bust Nak]

Are you making a moral argument or a legal one?

Both, I guess, but I don't understand why Moore isn't being charged.

Given your argument I presume that you would consider many leaders around the world as not worthy of office, most notably, Brazilian president Michel Temer (76), who's wife is 34.

Nah, she was an adult when they started dating.

I personally have moral problems with marital practices prior to the latter 20th century, but aren't you a proponent of separation of church and state?

Yes, a strong one at that. Why did you ask? You seem to be suggesting that there is some inconsistency with my stance.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 14 by bluethread]

The Jones victory is exactly what I was worried about when moore won the primary. This situation highlights exactly why we should consider temperment and behavior when voting in primaries. Moore was to toxic from the get go even before the allegations. The allegations was just the straw.