Tell me, what is "The Good News?"
Peace be to all.
What is "The Good News?"
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Post #271
[Replying to post 269 by JehovahsWitness]
Ok. The earthly Paradise you believe will exist separately from the heavenly realm in which the 144,000 co rule over the earth with Christ.
But I'm sure you knew what I meant.
Ok. The earthly Paradise you believe will exist separately from the heavenly realm in which the 144,000 co rule over the earth with Christ.
But I'm sure you knew what I meant.
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Post #272
postroad wrote: [Replying to post 269 by JehovahsWitness]
Ok. The earthly Paradise you believe will exist separately from the heavenly realm in which the 144,000 co rule over the earth with Christ.
Thank you.
What significance does the Law and the Levitical priesthood have in the above?
None really. That is to say the Mosaic Law and it's levitical features were we believe God's way of teaching and preparing the nation of Israel for the reality of the higher laws and better priesthood in the "Christian era". But short of teaching the faithful a lot about Gods standards and methods, the law and priesthood both served their purpose and are presently, we Jehovah's Witnesses believe, obsolete.
The 144,000 become an altogether different priesthood in an altogether different temple and as Paul so skillfully explained in his lettern o the Hebrews, these heavenly priestly kings render a vastly superior service.
Is there scriptural support for the teaching that Christians are not under the Mosaic law?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 738#843738
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: What is "The Good News?"
Post #273It's the latter. The "unsaved" are cast into the lake of fire and die instantly -- never to live again.Tcg wrote: Recently there has been a variety of opinions as to whether the punishment is eternal fire or temporary fire and then permanent nonexistence.
Tcg
Regarding the scriptures being sealed and the myth of everlasting torture:
The scriptures are sealed from man's understanding in the first few pages of the Bible:
Satan lied when he informed Eve that she would live forever, "Ye shall not surely die." Mainstream Christianity has incorporated that lie into their theologies for nearly two thousand years -- through the myth of the immortal soul or spirit.And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)
This initial false belief that man is born with immortality seals the remainder of the Bible from man's understanding -- as the Bible clearly and repeatedly states that man is mortal and will die! Thus, the remainder of the Bible must be incorrectly "interpreted" to support this original error!
So if we live forever, we must live somewhere. Christians proclaim they spend eternity in heaven while all others burn in hell eternally.
However, spiritual bodies such as the soul do not experience pain. It is simply not fair that nonbelievers live for eternity in hell with no corporal punishment! So they merge an incorruptible physical body back with the soul at the resurrection. This physical body can suffer pain but never die. Now nonbelievers can experience excruciating pain every second for eternity.
Ah, that is now a complete and perfect system -- mislabelled by some as "Christianity."
Post #274
[Replying to post 271 by JehovahsWitness]
How do you overcome the many texts indicating an eternal Levitical priesthood and Law observation?
Perhaps this text was never meant to be understood literaly? It placed the fulfillment of the new covenant promises and the restoration of the tribes of the northern kingdom along with The southern kingdom immediately post Babylon exile.
In fact only some of the Jews returned and the lofty assured salvation and restored Davidic kingdom never materialized as written.
New International Version (NIV)
A Message About Babylon
50 This is the word the Lord spoke through Jeremiah the prophet concerning Babylon and the land of the Babylonians[a]:
2 “Announce and proclaim among the nations,
lift up a banner and proclaim it;
keep nothing back, but say,
‘Babylon will be captured;
Bel will be put to shame,
Marduk filled with terror.
Her images will be put to shame
and her idols filled with terror.’
3 A nation from the north will attack her
and lay waste her land.
No one will live in it;
both people and animals will flee away.
4 “In those days, at that time,�
declares the Lord,
“the people of Israel and the people of Judah together
will go in tears to seek the Lord their God.
5 They will ask the way to Zion
and turn their faces toward it.
They will come and bind themselves to the Lord
in an everlasting covenant
that will not be forgotten.
How do you overcome the many texts indicating an eternal Levitical priesthood and Law observation?
Perhaps this text was never meant to be understood literaly? It placed the fulfillment of the new covenant promises and the restoration of the tribes of the northern kingdom along with The southern kingdom immediately post Babylon exile.
In fact only some of the Jews returned and the lofty assured salvation and restored Davidic kingdom never materialized as written.
New International Version (NIV)
A Message About Babylon
50 This is the word the Lord spoke through Jeremiah the prophet concerning Babylon and the land of the Babylonians[a]:
2 “Announce and proclaim among the nations,
lift up a banner and proclaim it;
keep nothing back, but say,
‘Babylon will be captured;
Bel will be put to shame,
Marduk filled with terror.
Her images will be put to shame
and her idols filled with terror.’
3 A nation from the north will attack her
and lay waste her land.
No one will live in it;
both people and animals will flee away.
4 “In those days, at that time,�
declares the Lord,
“the people of Israel and the people of Judah together
will go in tears to seek the Lord their God.
5 They will ask the way to Zion
and turn their faces toward it.
They will come and bind themselves to the Lord
in an everlasting covenant
that will not be forgotten.
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Post #275
Short term: This was fulfilled after their return from Babylon. There were no longer two separate kingdoms (Israel & Judah) from that time forward.postroad wrote: [Replying to post 265 by 2timothy316]
You mean a short term failure and a unfulfillable future?
Ezekiel 37:20-28 New International Version (NIV)
20 Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on 21 and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding,[a] and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God. 24 “‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’�
Long term: For true anointed one in our day, as they finish their Earthly lives they are joined with those that are already in Heaven under one King Jesus. Becoming one nation. Thus again bringing two groups of loyal followers together from all over the Earth to one place.
For more detail: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102017172
The key as to why this scripture has two fulfillments is due references to 'king David' referring to the covenant with David. Which was to produce a King for all time, which Jesus is that Greater David. This didn't take place during the return of the Jews from Babylon thus means that it must be fulfilled at a later date.
The book of Hosea is an example of a two fold prophecy. The Bible has many types and anti-types. Large prophecies played out on a smaller scale.
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Post #276
[Replying to post 274 by 2timothy316]
I am totally in love with the pure worship book! It's so exciting... not long now.
To respond to your post I would agree on the principle of "minor" and "major" fulfillment.
JW
I am totally in love with the pure worship book! It's so exciting... not long now.
To respond to your post I would agree on the principle of "minor" and "major" fulfillment.
JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Post #277
JehovahsWitness wrote:
To respond to your post I would agree on the princile of mjnor and major fulfillement.
It's hard to know how to address this post.
What is a "mjnor"?
Also, what is "fulfillement".
I'm not familiar with either of these words.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Post #278
I have not come across any such texts.postroad wrote: [Replying to post 271 by JehovahsWitness]
How do you overcome the many texts indicating an eternal Levitical priesthood and Law observation?
Jeremiah 50:5 above refers to "the new covenant" which would, as Jeremiah indicated, be future of the fall of Babylon (which is what the prophecy is speaking about) and the subsequent Jewish return from exile. The Mosaic law and the Levitical priesthood had already been established thousands of years prior to these words being penned, so the prophecy of a future time with a future union could not be referring to that covenant.postroad wrote:
They will come and bind themselves to the Lord in an everlasting covenant hat will not be forgotten.
JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Post #279
Tcg wrote:JehovahsWitness wrote:
To respond to your post I would agree on the princile of mjnor and major fulfillement.
It's hard to know how to address this post.
What is a "mjnor"?
Also, what is "fulfillement".
I'm not familiar with either of these words.
Tcg
Typos : typed too fast ...(I'll edit out the errors), thanks for pointing them out.
My bad,
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: What is "The Good News?"
Post #280That is not true; people are not resurrected only to be annihilated. And though that widely believed myth is a trillion times more humane than eternal torture, it is nevertheless unscriptural.myth-one.com wrote:It's the latter. The "unsaved" are cast into the lake of fire and die instantly -- never to live again.Tcg wrote: Recently there has been a variety of opinions as to whether the punishment is eternal fire or temporary fire and then permanent nonexistence.
Tcg
Peace.