Tell me, what is "The Good News?"
Peace be to all.
What is "The Good News?"
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Post #281
[Replying to post 274 by 2timothy316]
Are you suggesting it was fulfilled by God not actually fulfilling it? There was some mention of them returning to the physical land of their ancestors and not some otherworldly destination.
I bump up against the twofold fulfillment frequently when not even a single fulfilment has occurred. Why should I believe in a secondary fulfillment if it would nullify the as yet unfulfilled initial prophecy?
Are you suggesting it was fulfilled by God not actually fulfilling it? There was some mention of them returning to the physical land of their ancestors and not some otherworldly destination.
I bump up against the twofold fulfillment frequently when not even a single fulfilment has occurred. Why should I believe in a secondary fulfillment if it would nullify the as yet unfulfilled initial prophecy?
Post #282
So you are insisting that this "new" covenant cannot be a renewed version of the Law with God being the insurer of Israel's obedience through the action of the Spirit?JehovahsWitness wrote:I have not come across any such texts.postroad wrote: [Replying to post 271 by JehovahsWitness]
How do you overcome the many texts indicating an eternal Levitical priesthood and Law observation?
Jeremiah 50:5 above refers to "the new covenant" which would, as Jeremiah indicated, be future of the fall of Babylon (which is what the prophecy is speaking about) and the subsequent Jewish return from exile. The Mosaic law and the Levitical priesthood had already been established thousands of years prior to these words being penned, so the prophecy of a future time with a future union could not be referring to that covenant.postroad wrote:
They will come and bind themselves to the Lord in an everlasting covenant hat will not be forgotten.
JW
And this in relation to a Law declared perfect and eternal, based solely on your understanding of a single word "new"?
Didn't he promise to do such a thing?
Deuteronomy 30:1-6 New International Version (NIV)
Prosperity After Turning to the Lord
30 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, 2 and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, 3 then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes[a] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. 4 Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. 5 He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your ancestors. 6 The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
Ezekiel 11:18-20 New International Version (NIV)
18 “They will return to it and remove all its vile images and detestable idols. 19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
Ezekiel 36:26-28 New International Version (NIV)
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
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Re: What is "The Good News?"
Post #283That's correct, no one is resurrected only for the purpose of being annihilated.EBA wrote:That is not true; people are not resurrected only to be annihilated. And though that widely believed myth is a trillion times more humane than eternal torture, it is nevertheless unscriptural.myth-one.com wrote:It's the latter. The "unsaved" are cast into the lake of fire and die instantly -- never to live again.Tcg wrote: Recently there has been a variety of opinions as to whether the punishment is eternal fire or temporary fire and then permanent nonexistence.
Tcg
Peace.
The vast majority of humans who have ever lived never heard the true Good News of the scriptures.
Humans who died as Christians will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual life at the Second Coming.
Nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans a thousand years later.
The main reason nonbelievers are being resurrected is to hear the good news and then make an informed choice between everlasting life or everlasting death.
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #284
postroad wrote:
So you are insisting that this "new" covenant cannot be a renewed version of the Law ...
Covenants don't get "renewed" , what scriptural basis do you have for even suggestion such a thing. They are kept or broken. Period.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #285
postroad wrote:
Didn't he promise to do such a thing?
Deuteronomy 30:1-6 New International Version (NIV)
Prosperity After Turning to the Lord
30 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, 2 and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, 3 then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes[a] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. 4 Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. 5 He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your ancestors. 6 The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
What in Deuteronomy 30:1-6 suggests a "renewing" of the original covenent?
Maybe you should explain what the Law covenant was, its terms and conditions and what you mean by it being "renewed" to clarify your claim.
Ditto for Ezekiel 11:18-20 and Ezekiel 36:26-28
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #286
postroad wrote: [Replying to post 274 by 2timothy316]
... There was some mention of them returning to the physical land of their ancestors ...
Why should I believe in a secondary fulfillment if it would nullify the as yet unfulfilled initial prophecy?
Are you suggesting that none of exiled Jews returned to their homeland after the Babylonian conquest?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Post #287
[Replying to post 285 by JehovahsWitness]
I'm suggesting that the ten lost tribes got that name because the prophecies regarding Ephraim didn't materialize.
Jeremiah 50:18-20 New International Version (NIV)
18 Therefore this is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says:
“I will punish the king of Babylon and his land
as I punished the king of Assyria.
19 But I will bring Israel back to their own pasture,
and they will graze on Carmel and Bashan;
their appetite will be satisfied
on the hills of Ephraim and Gilead.
20 In those days, at that time,�
declares the Lord,
“search will be made for Israel’s guilt,
but there will be none,
and for the sins of Judah,
but none will be found,
for I will forgive the remnant I spare.
I'm suggesting that the ten lost tribes got that name because the prophecies regarding Ephraim didn't materialize.
Jeremiah 50:18-20 New International Version (NIV)
18 Therefore this is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says:
“I will punish the king of Babylon and his land
as I punished the king of Assyria.
19 But I will bring Israel back to their own pasture,
and they will graze on Carmel and Bashan;
their appetite will be satisfied
on the hills of Ephraim and Gilead.
20 In those days, at that time,�
declares the Lord,
“search will be made for Israel’s guilt,
but there will be none,
and for the sins of Judah,
but none will be found,
for I will forgive the remnant I spare.
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2timothy316
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Post #288
[Replying to post 286 by postroad]
The people of the 10 tribes Israel were not 'lost' even though their country was lost. The Bible records were they went.
"In the ninth year of Ho·sheʹa, the king of As·syrʹi·a captured Sa·marʹi·a. He then led the people of Israel into exile in As·syrʹi·a and made them dwell in Haʹlah and in Haʹbor at the river Goʹzan and in the cities of the Medes." - 2 Kings 17:6
These exiles returned to Jerusalem with Judah at the end of the Babylon captivity in 537 B.C.E according to 2 Chronicles 9:2. "The first inhabitants to return to their possession in their cities were some Israelites, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. And some of the descendants of Judah, of Benjamin, of Eʹphra·im, and of Ma·nasʹseh settled in Jerusalem."
These two scriptures show where the 10 Tribe 'stick' went and how the two sticks had become one again after Judah's exile was complete and they were released from Babylonian capture. 1 Chronicles 9:1 states "All the Israelites were enrolled genealogically". Ezra 6:17 records after they had rebuilt the temple at Jerusalem, "And they presented for the inauguration of this house of God 100 bulls, 200 rams, 400 lambs, and as a sin offering for all Israel 12 male goats, corresponding to the number of the tribes of Israel." According to the Bible they were 12 tribes once again making the prophecy fulfilled.
The people of the 10 tribes Israel were not 'lost' even though their country was lost. The Bible records were they went.
"In the ninth year of Ho·sheʹa, the king of As·syrʹi·a captured Sa·marʹi·a. He then led the people of Israel into exile in As·syrʹi·a and made them dwell in Haʹlah and in Haʹbor at the river Goʹzan and in the cities of the Medes." - 2 Kings 17:6
These exiles returned to Jerusalem with Judah at the end of the Babylon captivity in 537 B.C.E according to 2 Chronicles 9:2. "The first inhabitants to return to their possession in their cities were some Israelites, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. And some of the descendants of Judah, of Benjamin, of Eʹphra·im, and of Ma·nasʹseh settled in Jerusalem."
These two scriptures show where the 10 Tribe 'stick' went and how the two sticks had become one again after Judah's exile was complete and they were released from Babylonian capture. 1 Chronicles 9:1 states "All the Israelites were enrolled genealogically". Ezra 6:17 records after they had rebuilt the temple at Jerusalem, "And they presented for the inauguration of this house of God 100 bulls, 200 rams, 400 lambs, and as a sin offering for all Israel 12 male goats, corresponding to the number of the tribes of Israel." According to the Bible they were 12 tribes once again making the prophecy fulfilled.
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #289
postroad wrote: [Replying to post 285 by JehovahsWitness]
I'm suggesting that the ten lost tribes got that name because the prophecies regarding Ephraim didn't materialize.
As far as I know the bible never speaks of "ten lost tribes", its not a biblical expression (although it might be one popular in Hollywood) so I don't see what that has to do with prophecy.
As Tim pointed out representatives from all 12 tribes returned to the homeland,
JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Post #290
[Replying to post 283 by JehovahsWitness]
Its as if you don't believe I know the text? And you a member of an organization that consideres themselves the renewed true Church rescued out of the complete apostasy of the first attempt?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
Joshua 8:30
[ The Covenant Renewed at Mount Ebal ] Then Joshua built on Mount Ebal an altar to the Lord, the God of Israel,
Joshua 24:1
[ The Covenant Renewed at Shechem ] Then Joshua assembled all the tribes of Israel at Shechem. He summoned the elders, leaders, judges and officials of Israel, and they presented themselves before God.
2 Kings 23:3
The king stood by the pillar and renewed the covenant in the presence of the Lord—to follow the Lord and keep his commands, statutes and decrees with all his heart and all his soul, thus confirming the words of the covenant written in this book. Then all the people pledged themselves to the covenant.
2 Chronicles 34:31
The king stood by his pillar and renewed the covenant in the presence of the Lord—to follow the Lord and keep his commands, statutes and decrees with all his heart and all his soul, and to obey the words of the covenant written in this book.
Its as if you don't believe I know the text? And you a member of an organization that consideres themselves the renewed true Church rescued out of the complete apostasy of the first attempt?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
Joshua 8:30
[ The Covenant Renewed at Mount Ebal ] Then Joshua built on Mount Ebal an altar to the Lord, the God of Israel,
Joshua 24:1
[ The Covenant Renewed at Shechem ] Then Joshua assembled all the tribes of Israel at Shechem. He summoned the elders, leaders, judges and officials of Israel, and they presented themselves before God.
2 Kings 23:3
The king stood by the pillar and renewed the covenant in the presence of the Lord—to follow the Lord and keep his commands, statutes and decrees with all his heart and all his soul, thus confirming the words of the covenant written in this book. Then all the people pledged themselves to the covenant.
2 Chronicles 34:31
The king stood by his pillar and renewed the covenant in the presence of the Lord—to follow the Lord and keep his commands, statutes and decrees with all his heart and all his soul, and to obey the words of the covenant written in this book.
Last edited by postroad on Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
