If everything is happening automatic because of Evolution

[paarsurrey1]

I am an ordinary man in the street. I don’t have any claim to scholarship or any piety. I respect scientists; they are intelligent people; they discover and invent things and I am thankful to them. I buy things from the market discovered and invented by them and I am entitled to use those things as I have paid for them. I am grateful to the technicians and other artisans who make things convenient for me and I pay them for their services. I enjoy sports and I pay for that. I enjoy artists; they paint beautiful paintings; and I do pay for their paintings if I like to buy them.

They are my partners in my life; but I don’t think I have any reason to prefer one for the other. Why should I consider a Scientist to have any hegemony over me as the Atheism people make me believe?

Science is not the whole of human life; it is only a part of it. The Scientists never create anything from nothing; they only discover things that are very much already in existence in the Universe. I respect the Scientists but I admire, thank and gratify the One-True-God who had in reality created everything in me and around me. I think I have a right to do so. Am I right, please?

Regards

[Divine Insight]

Why should I consider a Scientist to have any hegemony over me as the Atheism people make me believe?

You shouldn't. And besides science itself does not proclaim that there is no God. So any atheists who claim that science supports that view are only kidding themselves.

However, having said that, if you believe in a religion that conflicts with known science then you should question that religious dogma for your own sake. Assuming that you are interested in truth. If you don't see any conflict between your religion and science then you personally don't have a problem. Many "atheists" do see major conflicts between known science and religious claims. So this is most likely what they are voicing.

The Scientists never create anything from nothing; they only discover things that are very much already in existence in the Universe.

So what? I'm not sure how to break this to you, but to hypothesize the existence of a magical God doesn't explain the problem of why things exist. In fact, where would that magical God have come from? That God would then have needed to exist for apparently no reason.

It's a fallacy to think that a magical God explains anything. This actually occurs because we recognize that magicians on earth use illusions to make it seem like they can do impossible things. And the magician in that case is a valid explanation because the magician is creating the illusion. So that's the explanation. But to then to take that idea further to day that a "God Magician" could explain how the universe popped out of nothing is really non sequitur. It's not a valid explanation.

Not only this, but if the explanation for our universe is that a magical God created it, then we need to stick to that explanation for the God himself and decree that God must exist because a magical God created it, and so on. It's a never ending fairytale.

I respect the Scientists but I admire, thank and gratify the One-True-God who had in reality created everything in me and around me. I think I have a right to do so.

Of course you have the "right" to do that. At least if you live in a free country. However, that doesn't give you the right to hold your beliefs over the heads of others talking about your "One-True-God" in an arrogant way that belittles everyone who doesn't believe in your favorite God myth.

In fact, if you want the right to believe in your favorite God mythology then you must respect the rights of all other people to believe in whatever they choose to believe. Whether it's a different God myth, or a mystical philosophy, or even atheism.

For you to claim to be worshiping the "One-True-God" while proclaiming that everyone who isn't worshiping your God is rejecting God becomes an exercise in extreme arrogance. This is the problem with the "Jealous God Religion" (i.e. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). All of these religions are based on folklore of a jealous God who hates anyone who doesn't worship him specifically.

Ironically even though all these religions were born of the same original folklore they have become divisive factions that use their now three different jealous Gods to belittle each other and spread hatred throughout the world to anyone who doesn't worship their version of the original mythology.

It is this hateful divisiveness of these "Jealous God Religions" that atheists see as being extremely detrimental to humanity as a whole. So they speak out against these ancient fables pointing out how they violate all known science.

While I see some value in their approach I don't typically use science to show that the Jealous God Religions are false. Although I agree that the Jealous God Religions are clearly incompatible with known science.

For example. There has always been death, disease, and natural disasters in the world long before humans ever showed up on the planet. Therefore the idea that humans could be responsible for causing the ills of the world is clearly false. So this exposes the fallacy of the Jealous God Religions that blame Adam and Eve's fall from grace for imperfections we see in the world.

If the entire history of life on planet earth were condensed to a 24-hour day, humans have only been on the planet for the last 8 seconds of that day. Think about that.

This does not match up with the Abrahamic tale.

Also, it's been clearly shown by science that there could not have been a global flood that killed off the bulk of humans after humans had become evolved enough to build cities and tell stories. So the flood fable of the Abrahamic folklore cannot be true as it is written.

Moving over to pure theology the Great Flood can't work in Christianity either for purely theological reasons. This is because if Jesus is the only way that humans can be saved, then drowning people out in a Great Flood before Jesus came would violate that master plan. So Christianity is not compatible with its own Old Testament. I'm not sure if this would be a theological problem for Islam since Islam doesn't view Jesus as the "savior" and the "only way" to get to God.

However, there are plenty of things in the older folklore that are also self-contradictory in terms of pure theology. For example the story of the Canaanites violates the "One True God" ideal. The Canaanites were sacrificing their own babies to a God. That would not be possible if there was only "One True God", unless of course, they were sacrificing their babies to the "One True God", which is all they could be doing in that case. So the story of the Canaanites only works in a polytheistic theology. To be fair to the authors who made up the story, they probably were polytheistic when they wrote it. So for them there would be no problem.

In any case, there are plenty of non-scientific reasons to reject the Abrahamic folklore of a jealous egotistical God who hates anyone who doesn't worship him.

It's clearly nothing more than a man-made myth complete with condoning male chauvinism, slavery, and many other immoral principles. I don't see how anyone could think that an actual God could be so ignorant and immoral.

Having said all of the above, there are religions that cannot be shown to be false either by science or self-contradiction. One such religion is Buddhism. Although I'm sure there are others. But notice that Buddhism doesn't have a jealous egotistical God who hates everyone who refuses to believe in him. So it's not one of the "Jealous God Religions".

In summary, there are far more reasons to reject the Abrahamic Jealous God religions than just because they are incompatible with scientific knowledge. They are also highly self-contradictory in their own theological tales.

Do you have the "right" to believe in a Jealous God Religion anyway? Sure you do. But you should at least be aware that when you try to convince others who have already recognize that these religions are necessarily false, they don't want to hear this nonsense that a Jealous God is the "One True God". Sorry but that fails big time.

That very mentality is detrimental to the positive constructive growth of humanity as a whole. That mentality does nothing but point fingers and make hateful accusations toward anyone who doesn't embrace the extremely flawed Jealous God myths.

And in the Middle East this mentality based on mythology could even cause WWIII.

Just look at what's going on there. The Jews, Christians, and Muslims are all hating on each other in the name of their Jealous Gods. Three Jealous Gods that were at one time the same folklore. These are religions that do nothing more than hate on each other in their God's name. A specific mythological God that clearly doesn't even exist no less.

[Neatras]

This isn't a scientific discussion, this is a question of philosophy. I'm not even trying to split hairs here, there's an explicit lack of any questions about evolution or science (as the title would suggest), while the body is entirely an introductory statement about how paarsurrey "likes scientists," but asks if he's allowed to like his god concept more. There's nothing scientific to debate here.

[otseng]

Moderator Action

Not sure where really to move this to. So moving to RR for now.

Please review the Rules and Tips on starting a debate topic.

[JP Cusick]

I am an ordinary man in the street. I don’t have any claim to scholarship or any piety. I respect scientists; they are intelligent people; they discover and invent things and I am thankful to them. I buy things from the market discovered and invented by them and I am entitled to use those things as I have paid for them. I am grateful to the technicians and other artisans who make things convenient for me and I pay them for their services. I enjoy sports and I pay for that. I enjoy artists; they paint beautiful paintings; and I do pay for their paintings if I like to buy them.

They are my partners in my life; but I don’t think I have any reason to prefer one for the other. Why should I consider a Scientist to have any hegemony over me as the Atheism people make me believe?

Science is not the whole of human life; it is only a part of it. The Scientists never create anything from nothing; they only discover things that are very much already in existence in the Universe. I respect the Scientists but I admire, thank and gratify the One-True-God who had in reality created everything in me and around me. I think I have a right to do so. Am I right, please?

Regards

I believe that you are trying to vent some frustration, based on the reality that there are many Atheist (particularly on this forum) who are mean and vicious in their anti-God and anti-religion rhetoric, and they misuse "science" as their weapon when true science is not an enemy to God or to religion.

My own view is that Atheism promotes incivility and intolerance and disrespect, so this is the new reality - and I really believe that Atheist are trying to provoke God into action - and that will come to them soon enough.

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 5 by JP Cusick]

Regardless how you might think of it, these arguments opposing rampant religiosity (which often invites or endorses violence) must be made. Expecting silence or affirmation just because someone claims their policies are "spiritual" is plainly illogical. I welcome any social change where religious convictions are no longer beyond reproach. Think whatever you want of me, I resist your calls for theocracy, your calls for banning beliefs and practices on delusional grounds.

[JP Cusick]

Regardless how you might think of it, these arguments opposing rampant religiosity (which often invites or endorses violence) must be made. Expecting silence or affirmation just because someone claims their policies are "spiritual" is plainly illogical. I welcome any social change where religious convictions are no longer beyond reproach. Think whatever you want of me, I resist your calls for theocracy, your calls for banning beliefs and practices on delusional grounds.

All I see Atheism do is fight against the guilt imposed by God and through religion.

As Atheism is not against violence but only against God and religion.

Atheism promotes incivility and intolerance and disrespect - but they are only against God and religion.

The Atheism is not opposed to cheat, to lie, to steal, and they love adultery and perverted licentiousness, because they are only anti-God and anti-religion.

And most diabolical is that Atheism hides behind an ugly and nasty version of so called "science" to push and to justify their immorality.

That is the frustration for decent people to confront, against the mean and vicious affronts from Atheism.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 5 by JP Cusick]

Regardless how you might think of it, these arguments opposing rampant religiosity (which often invites or endorses violence) must be made. Expecting silence or affirmation just because someone claims their policies are "spiritual" is plainly illogical. I welcome any social change where religious convictions are no longer beyond reproach. Think whatever you want of me, I resist your calls for theocracy, your calls for banning beliefs and practices on delusional grounds.

I don't see friend JP Cusick making any such calls. Please quote from him.
JP Cusick, I understand, doe not support any Theocracy. Did he, please? If so please quote his words.

Regards

[Tcg]

All I see Atheism do is fight against the guilt imposed by God and through religion.

All atheism is, is the lack of belief in god/gods. How you could see it do anything is quite the mystery.

As Atheism is not against violence but only against God and religion.

Given that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods, it is not against anything.

Atheism promotes incivility and intolerance and disrespect - but they are only against God and religion.

Atheism doesn't promote anything.

The Atheism is not opposed to cheat, to lie, to steal, and they love adultery and perverted licentiousness, because they are only anti-God and anti-religion.

Atheists may be involved in any of these, just as theists may be.

And most diabolical is that Atheism hides behind an ugly and nasty version of so called "science" to push and to justify their immorality.

Atheism doesn't push immorality in any way.

That is the frustration for decent people to confront, against the mean and vicious affronts from Atheism.

Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. It makes no affronts of any kind, vicious or otherwise.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 7 by JP Cusick]


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