“God does not exist� can be dismissed without evidence

For the love of the pursuit of knowledge

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
paarsurrey1
Sage
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:19 pm

“God does not exist� can be dismissed without evidence

Post #1

Post by paarsurrey1 »

The assertion “God does not exist� can be dismissed without evidence

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.�
Christopher Hitchens

Right, please?

Regards

starthrower
Student
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 10:08 pm

Post #31

Post by starthrower »

I do detect a bit of arrogance in reading this book. I just found two interesting books at the library on the historical Jesus that I'm going to look at. One is the classic A Quest Of The Historical Jesus by Albert Schweitzer, and the other is the recent book Zealot, by Reza Aslan.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Post #32

Post by Tcg »

starthrower wrote:
Yes, I've thought about the possibility that Jesus never said some of the things attributed to him.
It is quite possible that Jesus never said any of the things attributed to him. In any case, I'm glad you noticed one of the flaws in the argument which renders it totally invalid.

After reading a number of the arguments, I'd say their focus is to persuade non-believers.
I read the introduction and skimmed the first couple of chapters and the authors make it quite clear the are writing for a Christian audience.

starthrower
Student
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 10:08 pm

Post #33

Post by starthrower »

Tcg wrote:
starthrower wrote:
Yes, I've thought about the possibility that Jesus never said some of the things attributed to him.
It is quite possible that Jesus never said any of the things attributed to him. In any case, I'm glad you noticed one of the flaws in the argument which renders it totally invalid.

I suppose some writers could have made up all this stuff, but it seems unlikely to my mind. If Jesus didn't say some of these things, there would be no reason for the the Rabbis to condemn him, or the Roman authorities to put him to death.

User avatar
wiploc
Guru
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:26 pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: “God does not exist� can be dismissed without eviden

Post #34

Post by wiploc »

paarsurrey1 wrote: The assertion “God does not exist� can be dismissed without evidence
It would have to be.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Post #35

Post by Tcg »

starthrower wrote:

I suppose some writers could have made up all this stuff, but it seems unlikely to my mind. If Jesus didn't say some of these things, there would be no reason for the the Rabbis to condemn him, or the Roman authorities to put him to death.
You need to stop and ask yourself the source of the stories that the Rabbis condemned Jesus and that the Roman authorities put Jesus to death. The source is indeed the very same source that you rely on to have reported what Jesus said.

Given that there is no reason to trust that these sources are reporting what Jesus said, there is no reason to accept the rest of the story they created to convince you that the stories are true.

You are making the same mistake so many apologists make. You are using the myth created about Jesus to argue that the myth created about Jesus is true.

starthrower
Student
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 10:08 pm

Post #36

Post by starthrower »

I keep an open mind about it. I'm not a true believer. But other than the miracles, and the claims of divinity that can't be verified, the other statements attributed to Jesus make sense to me. And these are the ones so many Christians ignore. Not judging others' faults, and so forth.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Post #37

Post by Tcg »

starthrower wrote:
But other than the miracles, and the claims of divinity that can't be verified, the other statements attributed to Jesus make sense to me.
We are entering into a different discussion at this point. The fact that some of the statements attributed to Jesus make sense to you has no bearing on their authenticity.

User avatar
AgnosticBoy
Guru
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:44 pm
Has thanked: 203 times
Been thanked: 153 times
Contact:

Re: “God does not exist� can be dismissed without eviden

Post #38

Post by AgnosticBoy »

paarsurrey1 wrote: The assertion “God does not exist� can be dismissed without evidence

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.�
Christopher Hitchens

Right, please?

Regards
An atheist's claim should only be dismissed if he or she offers no evidence or insufficient evidence. The best case that I've gotten from positive atheists are inductive arguments, but sadly those arguments don't serve as proof - not to mention their sufficiency (in terms of validity, the quality of evidence, etc.) is debatable.

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: “God does not exist� can be dismissed without eviden

Post #39

Post by marco »

AgnosticBoy wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote: The assertion “God does not exist� can be dismissed without evidence

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.�
Christopher Hitchens

Right, please?

Regards
An atheist's claim should only be dismissed if he or she offers no evidence or insufficient evidence. The best case that I've gotten from positive atheists are inductive arguments, but sadly those arguments don't serve as proof - not to mention their sufficiency (in terms of validity, the quality of evidence, etc.) is debatable.
It would seem futile for us to attempt to use deductive reasoning regarding God if God is outside the terms and conditions of what is human or natural. We cannot put a gallon of water into a pint pot. Whatever conclusions we mystically reach would make God's existence in a sense dependent on our own, deducible from human scraps. It would seem reasonable to suppose that the tools we have are insufficient to chip away at God; the best we can do is offer ourselves "convincing" arguments to explain the inexplicable. For many it is comforting to think a being exists somewhere, watchful and solicitous of our actions and endowed with an infinite amount of all that is good. Such a God is the design of man. The miracle would be if such an entity, sprung from human reason, did have independent existence.

starthrower
Student
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 10:08 pm

Re: “God does not exist� can be dismissed without eviden

Post #40

Post by starthrower »

paarsurrey1 wrote: The assertion “God does not exist� can be dismissed without evidence
As has already been mentioned, "it would have to be." If God doesn't exist, then there's obviously no evidence.

Post Reply