The Jews, the State of Israel, literal city of Jerusalem

[JehovahsWitness]

My question is mainly for bible believing Christians but Atheists and others are welcome to share their views:

• Do you believe the bible indicates that Jewish people (literal descendants of Abraham), the State of Israel, literal city of Jerusalem in the Middle East, will play any special role in the outworking of bible prophecy? If so can you explain what you believe that would be?
  
  Revelation speaks of a group of 144,000 individuals chosen from the twelve tribes of Israel, what do you think this is refering to?
  
  The bible speaks of Jesus promise that the faithful Apostles will "sit on thrones" and judge "the twelve tribes of Israel", what do you think this refers to?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 7 by brianbbs67]

Can you explain more about "the elect"? Who are they and what part will they play in Gods purpose?

They could be any of us who keep his commandments. Jew or Gentile. Mathew and Reveleation have a lot to say about them. There will be 144000 of them and they will rule in heaven with the Lord. Whether earthly bodies or not. One thing to remember, don't think you are special or preferred just because some man told you, you are. God makes His own choices and sometimes, confounds us all.

Won't we all "rule in heaven with the Lord"? Are you saying there are two classe of believers with two different destinies?

its seems from reading, there will be Heaven on earth and above. I can not say which is better, or if they are the same. As I have not been to either.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 11 by brianbbs67]

I don't understand from your answer will they rule in heaven will they rule on earth or will they rule both in heaven and on earth?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 12 by JehovahsWitness]

Both it seems

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 12 by JehovahsWitness]

Both it seems

So won't ALL believers rule with Jesus or are there two groups of believers one group that will rule and one group that will not rule?


(Is this the first time in your life anyone has asked you these questions?)

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

Hah! not the first time. But the first time anyone has persisted.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

Hah! not the first time. But the first time anyone has persisted.

So do you feel able to answer my question?

So won't ALL believers rule with Jesus or are there two groups of believers one group that will rule and one group that will not rule?

It's okay to say "I've never thought that deeply about my own beliefs I don't know the answer", no shame in "IDK".


JW

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]

Doesn't scripture point to levels of belief/reward? I would think you would know this. Otherwise, the Elect would have no meaning? It would be the same.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]

Doesn't scripture point to levels of belief/reward? I would think you would know this. Otherwise, the Elect would have no meaning? It would be the same.

So you believe there two groups of believers (the elect AND those that are not elect). Do you know what you believe in regard who each group are and what they will do?

you said ...

They could be any of us who keep his commandments. Jew or Gentile. Mathew and Reveleation have a lot to say about them. There will be 144000 of them and they will rule in heaven with the Lord.

... are you suggesting that those 144,000 are the "elect" and if so, what about the non-elect, will they ALSO rule in heaven with Jesus ?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 18 by JehovahsWitness]

That's what John tells us. The thing I notice is, our whole new testament is written much later and not by anyone who was there. Except maybe John. But, that's an if too. So, faith must guide us. Do we believe in God? Do we believe He will forgive? Those are the most important questions. If you believe the OT, He actually begs Isreal, a few times, to just repent and He will wash them clean as snow. Like new fleece.

What can be gathered is, God is ready to accept us. We have to be ready to accept Him . Be good, do good, accept good. Is the message.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]

Doesn't scripture point to levels of belief/reward? I would think you would know this. Otherwise, the Elect would have no meaning? It would be the same.

So you believe there two groups of believers (the elect AND those that are not elect). Do you know what you believe in regard who each group are and what they will do?

you said ...

They could be any of us who keep his commandments. Jew or Gentile. Mathew and Reveleation have a lot to say about them. There will be 144000 of them and they will rule in heaven with the Lord.

... are you suggesting that those 144,000 are the "elect" and if so, what about the non-elect, will they ALSO rule in heaven with Jesus ?

I don't know if its 2 groups or 3, but someone is always in authority. And the good thing is, God knows, and will maintain it.

Did not Christ say, " you 12 will rule from thrones with me"? So, just the reference to thrones, implies an order.