who founded the Roman church?

[dio9]

Who founded the Roman Church? When Paul met with Peter James and John after his conversion and presented his Gospel they told him to be the apostle to the gentiles. . Peter would be the apostle to the Jews. But someone established the Roman Church. . Who was it? Not Paul. Peter is said to be the first bishop of Rome but how does this figure with Peter being the apostle to the Jews?

Any ideas about who started the Roman Church?

Galatians 2 : 7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised,[a] just as Peter had been to the circumcised. 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles.

So who started the Roman Church?

was the Roman Church Jewish Christians?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to brianbbs67]

Yahweh and two angels also visited Abraham before they destroyed Sodom. I'd say they were acting as a bit more than just messengers. Their names weren't listed but they served to destroy the city.

Considering that YHWH cannot be seen by men or they would die, it was not YHWH who came down to speak to Abraham and then to Lot. He is called YHWH because he was representing YHWH, and whatever he said, it was really YHWH who had given him the authority to say it.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 188 by onewithhim]

But can an angel ever be God? Never!
Jesus is believed by Christians to be God and Man, not God and Angel. There have been hundreds of years of argument over the nature of Christ and it was decided Christ is wholly God and wholly Man. Think about it.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 188 by onewithhim]

But can an angel ever be God? Never!
Jesus is believed by Christians to be God and Man, not God and Angel. There have been hundreds of years of argument over the nature of Christ and it was decided Christ is wholly God and wholly Man. Think about it.

I have thought extensively about it.

Jesus has never been God and never will. Why do you argue that since he is God he could not have been an angel? He IS NOT God.

Any church that teaches that Jesus is God is part of the great Apostacy that happened when the last Apostle died, in the first century. (Acts 20:29,30)

Do you want to take the word for it that Jesus is God from a council that was presided over by a pagan who was more interested in politics than in spiritual things? Do some deep research on Constantine.

[tam]

[Replying to post 183 by onewithhim]

Peace to you OWH,

You used Hebrew 2:7 to support your statements, but the first two chapters of Hebrews are making a very specific distinction between Christ and angels, which show that Christ is not an angel.


"... or to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father�?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son�?

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.�

In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.�

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.�

To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet�?

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?



In each statement above, the author of Hebrews is showing a distinction between angels and the Son.

**

Christ does not say that He is Michael.

None of the apostles or early Christians ever said that Christ was Michael.

Nowhere does the bible state that Christ is Michael.

In fact, the bible (as shown above) points out a specific distinction between the Son... and angels. The Son is not an angel.



I am sorry, but the WTS has taught her members wrong on this matter.




May anyone who thirsts and anyone who wishes, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"



Peace to you and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to brianbbs67]

Yahweh and two angels also visited Abraham before they destroyed Sodom. I'd say they were acting as a bit more than just messengers. Their names weren't listed but they served to destroy the city.

Yes these 2 messengers were more than men. My point was the angel moniker simply means messenger. Divinity is determined by what they do.

As to the NWT, I agree Tam. Christ was a messenger, The Messenger , but not Micheal or one of the host, but God's son.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to brianbbs67]

Yahweh and two angels also visited Abraham before they destroyed Sodom. I'd say they were acting as a bit more than just messengers. Their names weren't listed but they served to destroy the city.

Yes these 2 messengers were more than men. My point was the angel moniker simply means messenger. Divinity is determined by what they do.

As to the NWT, I agree Tam. Christ was a messenger, The Messenger , but not Micheal or one of the host, but God's son.

I agree that Christ is God's Son as well.

Michael is portrayed as a mighty being that is associated with the end days and the Great Tribulation. I read in the Gospels about the G.T. and I see no one of authority but JESUS being associated with this event. I don't see where TWO individuals of equal status are set to come down and battle with the earth's armies. Where is this? How can you say that an individual named Michael will stand up for the people when the Great Tribulation hits (Dan.12:1) AND ALSO an individual named Jesus Christ will stand up for the people when the G.T. hits (Matthew 24:21,29,30)? In neither passage do I see TWO individuals named. Can you show me that there are?

If Michael is standing for the people during the time of the Great Tribulation, and Jesus Christ is standing for the people during the time of the Great Tribulation, and we can't find TWO individuals named in either account (Daniel 12:1 + Matthew 24:21,29,30), then is it such a long-shot that those two names must be applied to the same ONE person?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to brianbbs67]

Yahweh and two angels also visited Abraham before they destroyed Sodom. I'd say they were acting as a bit more than just messengers. Their names weren't listed but they served to destroy the city.

Yes these 2 messengers were more than men. My point was the angel moniker simply means messenger. Divinity is determined by what they do.

As to the NWT, I agree Tam. Christ was a messenger, The Messenger , but not Micheal or one of the host, but God's son.

I agree that Christ is God's Son as well.

Michael is portrayed as a mighty being that is associated with the end days and the Great Tribulation. I read in the Gospels about the G.T. and I see no one of authority but JESUS being associated with this event. I don't see where TWO individuals of equal status are set to come down and battle with the earth's armies. Where is this? How can you say that an individual named Michael will stand up for the people when the Great Tribulation hits (Dan.12:1) AND ALSO an individual named Jesus Christ will stand up for the people when the G.T. hits (Matthew 24:21,29,30)? In neither passage do I see TWO individuals named. Can you show me that there are?

If Michael is standing for the people during the time of the Great Tribulation, and Jesus Christ is standing for the people during the time of the Great Tribulation, and we can't find TWO individuals named in either account (Daniel 12:1 + Matthew 24:21,29,30), then is it such a long-shot that those two names must be applied to the same ONE person?

First off, The whole host is coming, not just Christ. Daniel 12:5 continues on. Talking of 2 individuals on opposite banks. Remember , this is addressed to the Isrealites. Could not Micheal defend the Israelites and another defend others? The 2 defer to the hovering entity.

If you get a Talmud set, you can see Mikael's origin and how his name is given. (like unto God)

Besides the whole passages changes after God says keep it a secret.

5"Then I Daniel saw....." So, v5 doesn't really have anything to do with v1.

Well, it was not kept secret. Or was it. Some one named Micheal will champion Isreal. Keep it a secret, till the end.

"Then I daniel saw..."

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to brianbbs67]

Yahweh and two angels also visited Abraham before they destroyed Sodom. I'd say they were acting as a bit more than just messengers. Their names weren't listed but they served to destroy the city.

Yes these 2 messengers were more than men. My point was the angel moniker simply means messenger. Divinity is determined by what they do.

As to the NWT, I agree Tam. Christ was a messenger, The Messenger , but not Micheal or one of the host, but God's son.

I agree that Christ is God's Son as well.

Michael is portrayed as a mighty being that is associated with the end days and the Great Tribulation. I read in the Gospels about the G.T. and I see no one of authority but JESUS being associated with this event. I don't see where TWO individuals of equal status are set to come down and battle with the earth's armies. Where is this? How can you say that an individual named Michael will stand up for the people when the Great Tribulation hits (Dan.12:1) AND ALSO an individual named Jesus Christ will stand up for the people when the G.T. hits (Matthew 24:21,29,30)? In neither passage do I see TWO individuals named. Can you show me that there are?

If Michael is standing for the people during the time of the Great Tribulation, and Jesus Christ is standing for the people during the time of the Great Tribulation, and we can't find TWO individuals named in either account (Daniel 12:1 + Matthew 24:21,29,30), then is it such a long-shot that those two names must be applied to the same ONE person?

First off, The whole host is coming, not just Christ. Daniel 12:5 continues on. Talking of 2 individuals on opposite banks. Remember , this is addressed to the Isrealites. Could not Micheal defend the Israelites and another defend others? The 2 defer to the hovering entity.

If you get a Talmud set, you can see Mikael's origin and how his name is given. (like unto God)

Besides the whole passages changes after God says keep it a secret.

5"Then I Daniel saw....." So, v5 doesn't really have anything to do with v1.

Well, it was not kept secret. Or was it. Some one named Micheal will champion Isreal. Keep it a secret, till the end.

"Then I daniel saw..."

So, this can't be the secret as we all read it. Micheal is not named as Divine either. Just a great leader.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to brianbbs67]

Yahweh and two angels also visited Abraham before they destroyed Sodom. I'd say they were acting as a bit more than just messengers. Their names weren't listed but they served to destroy the city.

Yes these 2 messengers were more than men. My point was the angel moniker simply means messenger. Divinity is determined by what they do.

As to the NWT, I agree Tam. Christ was a messenger, The Messenger , but not Micheal or one of the host, but God's son.

I agree that Christ is God's Son as well.

Michael is portrayed as a mighty being that is associated with the end days and the Great Tribulation. I read in the Gospels about the G.T. and I see no one of authority but JESUS being associated with this event. I don't see where TWO individuals of equal status are set to come down and battle with the earth's armies. Where is this? How can you say that an individual named Michael will stand up for the people when the Great Tribulation hits (Dan.12:1) AND ALSO an individual named Jesus Christ will stand up for the people when the G.T. hits (Matthew 24:21,29,30)? In neither passage do I see TWO individuals named. Can you show me that there are?

If Michael is standing for the people during the time of the Great Tribulation, and Jesus Christ is standing for the people during the time of the Great Tribulation, and we can't find TWO individuals named in either account (Daniel 12:1 + Matthew 24:21,29,30), then is it such a long-shot that those two names must be applied to the same ONE person?

First off, The whole host is coming, not just Christ. Daniel 12:5 continues on. Talking of 2 individuals on opposite banks. Remember , this is addressed to the Isrealites. Could not Micheal defend the Israelites and another defend others? The 2 defer to the hovering entity.

If you get a Talmud set, you can see Mikael's origin and how his name is given. (like unto God)

Besides the whole passages changes after God says keep it a secret.

5"Then I Daniel saw....." So, v5 doesn't really have anything to do with v1.

Well, it was not kept secret. Or was it. Some one named Micheal will champion Isreal. Keep it a secret, till the end.

"Then I daniel saw..."

So, this can't be the secret as we all read it. Micheal is not named as Divine either. Just a great leader.

OK. We'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for your respectful responses.

[TripleZ]

[Replying to post 1 by dio9]

Constantine put it in motion after a 312 ad battle victory by placing the Chi Rho on the shield and banners. Became the state religion in 325. By 353?, the Nicean council put non Trinitarians to rest(look up Arius and Athenaseus). Worship practices changed, maybe not for the better. Holy Days (holidays) changed too. I believe this is where we went way off track and have yet to recover.

Early followers of The Way, as they called themselves, keep the Sabbath, met in synagogues and kept the original Holy days. Even most still followed the Law set by Moses. The later disciples did gather at Sunset Saturday(Sunday by the Torah) and have communion and discuss Christ. But, they kept the Sabbath as Christ said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Although some adopted what Peter bound and released in Acts. Paul and Peter did not get along at all, if we believe Acts. They could not even share a boat together.

Did you know Jesus is not His name? Just a Greek transliteration of a sort as Yeshua/Jeshua/Yehosua did not translate.

The One True Messianic Church ( Communities all over the world ) was established upon the death ( suffering and blood ) and resurrection ( to everlasting LIFE ) of the Messiah.. All this is in the Scriptures, to be easily read and understood..