Why do you think atheists exist?

[Justin108]

The reason I believe some people are Christian is primarily a combination of two reasons:
1. Indoctrination
2. Comfort

The indoctrination theory is pretty self explanatory. Many Christians are Christians because they were raised that way. They were taught from birth that the existence of God is a matter of fact. Given that they were taught this from birth, they assume that it is a given. They take it for granted along with all the other things they were taught from birth. To question that which you always believed to be true is of course a daunting task. As such, very few people actually do. Very few people successfully escape the clutches of indoctrination and as a result, remain Christian until their death.

My second theory is comfort. There is no doubt that Christianity offers comfort. You are told that the most powerful being in the universe loves you. That he will watch over you. That one day, after you die, you will go to heaven where everything is perfect. Where there is no pain, no fear, no suffering. This is of course incredibly comforting. If not for this, they would be left with uncertainty. Fear. Anxiety. What if something happens to me and no one is there to save me? What happens after death? These questions in the absence of the Christian answer can be terrifying. And so many Christians cling on to the answers provided by Christianity. Even if the answers are not necessarily justified by reason or evidence, the answers are nonetheless comforting and that is enough for many Christians.

I fully acknowledge that the above is my own speculation. Given that, what is your speculation for the existence of atheists? If Christianity is evidently true, why would an atheist ever deny it in favor of atheism? What exactly is it about atheism that draws people to believe it?

[polonius]

This thread begins by more or less arguing "atheism" verses Christianity. That is a logical error.

Atheism is disbelief in the existence of God. Not disbelief specifically in Christianity. For example, Jews are ( usually) theists (believe in the existence of God) but are not Christians.

[Divine Insight]

I have problems with the very terms "atheist" and "atheism". And the reason I have problems with these terms is that I see people using them to mean radically different things, including people who claim to themselves be "atheists".

This is why I prefer to consider myself to be "agnostic", but even that term does not apply to every concept of theism. In other words, there are certain theological paradigms that I firmly reject as being clearly false.

In fact, here are a couple definitions of atheists and atheism:
(note: these are my own definitions based on how I see these terms being used)

Definitions for Type A1 Atheism:

Atheist - a-theist (semantically = To simply be without a theism)
Atheist - A person who sees no reason to believe in any specific proposed Gods or theologies.
Atheism - A general philosophy that there are no compelling reasons to believe in any proposed Gods or theologies.

Definitions for Type A2 Atheism:

Atheist2 - a-theist (semantically = To reject the very idea of theism)
Atheist2 - A person who believes there cannot be any such thing as a God of any kind.
Atheism2 - A general philosophy that takes the position that no Gods can possibly exist.

Personal note: I personally favor definition A1, but unfortunately I see many people who claim to be atheists arguing from a position of A2. For this reason the term "atheism" has little meaning since it's difficult to know how it is being used.

And now on to your questions:

Given that, what is your speculation for the existence of atheists?

Atheists of the type A1 simply see no reason to believe in any proposed religions. And therefore these "atheists" only exist because these religions exist. Just as non-stamp-collectors exist because some people actually collect stamps.

Atheists of the type A2 exist because they have apparently been convinced that the very concept of a God is impossible. For this reason they are convinced that there cannot be any type of God or theology at all, ever. These type A2 atheists are actually materialists and that is a "belief" in a specific worldview. So atheists of type A2 are actually Faith-Based Materialists. They believe that they have sufficient evidence that reality is a purely secular materialistic event. That's a "belief".

If Christianity is evidently true, why would an atheist ever deny it in favor of atheism?

Clearly the type A1 atheists are convinced that it's not true. So for them, the argument that it is "evidently true", is a flawed non-compelling argument. (Note: I am a type A1 atheist when it comes to Christianity, and all the Abrahamic religions.)

Obviously type A2 atheists also aren't convinced that Christianity is "evidently true". For it they believed that they wouldn't be A2 atheists.

What exactly is it about atheism that draws people to believe it?

Type A1 atheism is the natural position for anyone who views all current theologies as being clearly flawed and non-compelling. (note: This is the type of atheist I would be relative to most proposed theologies. However, since I see some mystical theologies/philosophies as being at least plausible, I prefer to simply remain agnostic with respect to those specific philosophies.)

Type A2 atheism would be the natural position for anyone who believes that the world is a purely secular materialistic event. That is actually a belief in a specific worldview in its own right. Type A2 atheism could be called a "religion" of sorts.

[For_The_Kingdom]

The reason I believe some people are Christian is primarily a combination of two reasons:
1. Indoctrination
2. Comfort

The indoctrination theory is pretty self explanatory. Many Christians are Christians because they were raised that way. They were taught from birth that the existence of God is a matter of fact. Given that they were taught this from birth, they assume that it is a given. They take it for granted along with all the other things they were taught from birth. To question that which you always believed to be true is of course a daunting task. As such, very few people actually do. Very few people successfully escape the clutches of indoctrination and as a result, remain Christian until their death.

My second theory is comfort. There is no doubt that Christianity offers comfort. You are told that the most powerful being in the universe loves you. That he will watch over you. That one day, after you die, you will go to heaven where everything is perfect. Where there is no pain, no fear, no suffering. This is of course incredibly comforting. If not for this, they would be left with uncertainty. Fear. Anxiety. What if something happens to me and no one is there to save me? What happens after death? These questions in the absence of the Christian answer can be terrifying. And so many Christians cling on to the answers provided by Christianity. Even if the answers are not necessarily justified by reason or evidence, the answers are nonetheless comforting and that is enough for many Christians.

I fully acknowledge that the above is my own speculation. Given that, what is your speculation for the existence of atheists? If Christianity is evidently true, why would an atheist ever deny it in favor of atheism? What exactly is it about atheism that draws people to believe it?

Ahh, yes. The genetic fallacy. So, lets just assume that you are right, and most Christians only believe in Christianity because of indoctrination, and because it offers them comfort.

Now, based on those reasons, does that mean Christianity is false. Nope. Think about it: If Christianity is true, then those who believe in it are being indoctrinated with truth...and if they find it comforting, then they are finding comfort in truth.

Of course, on the flip-side, they could also become indoctrinated with something that is false (it works both ways). But the point is, the reasons why someone come to believe something says nothing about the truth value of the belief.

That aside, your question about why are there so many atheists if there is so much evidence for Christianity...I think the answer is because most people would PREFER there not to be a God/Jesus. Why?

Because in my opinion, it is ultimately about sex. People don't want someone telling them who they can sleep with. People don't like the idea of someone telling them that they shouldn't have sex before marriage...and to only be romantically involved with one partner your entire life. That is a big deal to most people (in my opinion).

I think that there will be a lot more Christians in this world if core Christianity allowed freedom of sex. It would be a lot easier to accept a religion that allowed that kind of stuff, wouldn't it?

And not just sex (even though sex is #1), but people don't like being accountable, PERIOD. People don't like the idea of some Cosmic entity telling them what they can, and can't do. If it weren't for those things, I think there would be a lot LESS atheism.

And while we are on this subject, it is my humble opinion that there are no "true" atheists. What I mean is, any reasonable person with common sense knows that deep down inside, there is a God. Everyone knows this.

However, there is an internal battle between..

1. The 10% of their mind which "knows" that God exists
2. The 90% of their mind which would PREFER for God to NOT exist

#1 and #2 are in DAILY conflict with each other.

The 90% <-- are what gets people on these forums. When they argue against theism, they are not only trying to stump theists, they are also trying to convince themselves that God doesn't exist.

But deep down inside, they know. Now of course, an atheist reason(s) for becoming an atheist has no barren on the truth value of whether their belief is true...but I am just giving you my perspective as it relates to your question.

Just my two cents.

[1213]

...My second theory is comfort. There is no doubt that Christianity offers comfort. You are told that the most powerful being in the universe loves you. That he will watch over you. That one day, after you die, you will go to heaven where everything is perfect. Where there is no pain, no fear, no suffering. This is of course incredibly comforting. If not for this, they would be left with uncertainty. Fear. Anxiety. What if something happens to me and no one is there to save me? What happens after death? These questions in the absence of the Christian answer can be terrifying. And so many Christians cling on to the answers provided by Christianity....

The problem with that claim is that Bible also introduces hell. If person would be atheist, he would not have fear of hell. So, if fear would be the motivator, it could as well lead out of Christianity. And also, Bible gives conditions for salvation, it teaches that people should not do evil things. It is not very comfortable, if one wants evil things. And I believe that is the reason why many reject Christianity.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Justin108]

Atheists exist for one of two reasons. Either because none of the stories of god/gods they have heard add up or because they have never heard any stories of god/gods.

It's not a moral issue nor is it terribly complex. Some humans believe in god/gods, others lack that belief in the same way that some believe in Bigfoot and some don't. Those who lack belief in Bigfoot either don't buy the stories some humans tell, or they have never heard them.

[Tcg]

It is not very comfortable, if one wants evil things. And I believe that is the reason why many reject Christianity.

If one wants to do evil things and be comfortable with it, all they have to do is accept the version of Christianity that says all they have to do is "believe and be saved." If they actually fear hell, this is the perfect loophole. This is the perfect reason to accept Christianity. Do evil things and get a free pass when you die. John Newton, the former slave trade sailor, is a perfect example of this.

[Justin108]

This thread begins by more or less arguing "atheism" verses Christianity. That is a logical error.

Atheism is disbelief in the existence of God. Not disbelief specifically in Christianity.

So? Just because atheism entails more than just a disbelief in Christianity doesn't mean it's a logical error. This is Christianity and Apologetics and so I focus on Christianity. Just because something is not all-inclusive doesn't mean it's illogical.

[Justin108]

Ahh, yes. The genetic fallacy. So, lets...

Let me stop you right there. The OP is not "are my speculations about Christianity accurate?" The OP asks "why do you think atheists exist?". My only reason for including my own take on Christianity is to illustrate what I mean by my question. I.e 'I think this is why Christians are Christians. Now please do the same and tell me why you think atheists are atheists.'

But the point is, the reasons why someone come to believe something says nothing about the truth value of the belief.

Good thing I didn't ask "which is true? Christianity or atheism?"

That being said, while it does not demonstrate which is true, it does indicate whether one's reason for believing is rational or emotionally driven.

Because in my opinion, it is ultimately about sex. People don't want someone telling them who they can sleep with. People don't like the idea of someone telling them that they shouldn't have sex before marriage...and to only be romantically involved with one partner your entire life. That is a big deal to most people (in my opinion).

Are atheists particularly promiscuous in your experience? Is there a correlation between sex addiction and atheism? STD's and atheism? I knew this guy in University. He's an atheist. His hair is long and dirty, he spends most of his time gaming, etc. I doubt he's even kissed a girl, let alone had sex. Is he an atheist because of sex?

I think that there will be a lot more Christians in this world if core Christianity allowed freedom of sex.

Why become an atheist then? Why not a Hindu? They are free to have sex before marriage.

It would be a lot easier to accept a religion that allowed that kind of stuff, wouldn't it?

Like Hinduism.

And not just sex (even though sex is #1), but people don't like being accountable, PERIOD. People don't like the idea of some Cosmic entity telling them what they can, and can't do. If it weren't for those things, I think there would be a lot LESS atheism.

Is there a correlation between atheism and crime? Is it not true that most prisoners in the US are Christian?

And while we are on this subject, it is my humble opinion that there are no "true" atheists. What I mean is, any reasonable person with common sense knows that deep down inside, there is a God. Everyone knows this.

Oh ok

[Tired of the Nonsense]

The reason I believe some people are Christian is primarily a combination of two reasons:
1. Indoctrination
2. Comfort

The indoctrination theory is pretty self explanatory. Many Christians are Christians because they were raised that way. They were taught from birth that the existence of God is a matter of fact. Given that they were taught this from birth, they assume that it is a given. They take it for granted along with all the other things they were taught from birth. To question that which you always believed to be true is of course a daunting task. As such, very few people actually do. Very few people successfully escape the clutches of indoctrination and as a result, remain Christian until their death.

My second theory is comfort. There is no doubt that Christianity offers comfort. You are told that the most powerful being in the universe loves you. That he will watch over you. That one day, after you die, you will go to heaven where everything is perfect. Where there is no pain, no fear, no suffering. This is of course incredibly comforting. If not for this, they would be left with uncertainty. Fear. Anxiety. What if something happens to me and no one is there to save me? What happens after death? These questions in the absence of the Christian answer can be terrifying. And so many Christians cling on to the answers provided by Christianity. Even if the answers are not necessarily justified by reason or evidence, the answers are nonetheless comforting and that is enough for many Christians.

I fully acknowledge that the above is my own speculation. Given that, what is your speculation for the existence of atheists? If Christianity is evidently true, why would an atheist ever deny it in favor of atheism? What exactly is it about atheism that draws people to believe it?

Ahh, yes. The genetic fallacy. So, lets just assume that you are right, and most Christians only believe in Christianity because of indoctrination, and because it offers them comfort.

Now, based on those reasons, does that mean Christianity is false. Nope. Think about it: If Christianity is true, then those who believe in it are being indoctrinated with truth...and if they find it comforting, then they are finding comfort in truth.

Of course, on the flip-side, they could also become indoctrinated with something that is false (it works both ways). But the point is, the reasons why someone come to believe something says nothing about the truth value of the belief.

That aside, your question about why are there so many atheists if there is so much evidence for Christianity...I think the answer is because most people would PREFER there not to be a God/Jesus. Why?

Because in my opinion, it is ultimately about sex. People don't want someone telling them who they can sleep with. People don't like the idea of someone telling them that they shouldn't have sex before marriage...and to only be romantically involved with one partner your entire life. That is a big deal to most people (in my opinion).

I think that there will be a lot more Christians in this world if core Christianity allowed freedom of sex. It would be a lot easier to accept a religion that allowed that kind of stuff, wouldn't it?

And not just sex (even though sex is #1), but people don't like being accountable, PERIOD. People don't like the idea of some Cosmic entity telling them what they can, and can't do. If it weren't for those things, I think there would be a lot LESS atheism.

And while we are on this subject, it is my humble opinion that there are no "true" atheists. What I mean is, any reasonable person with common sense knows that deep down inside, there is a God. Everyone knows this.

However, there is an internal battle between..

1. The 10% of their mind which "knows" that God exists
2. The 90% of their mind which would PREFER for God to NOT exist

#1 and #2 are in DAILY conflict with each other.

The 90% <-- are what gets people on these forums. When they argue against theism, they are not only trying to stump theists, they are also trying to convince themselves that God doesn't exist.

But deep down inside, they know. Now of course, an atheist reason(s) for becoming an atheist has no barren on the truth value of whether their belief is true...but I am just giving you my perspective as it relates to your question.

Just my two cents.

Because in my opinion, it is ultimately about sex. People don't want someone telling them who they can sleep with. People don't like the idea of someone telling them that they shouldn't have sex before marriage...and to only be romantically involved with one partner your entire life. That is a big deal to most people (in my opinion).

When I was thirteen years old I reached the conclusion that Christian claims were far too silly to be valid and true. I had never met another openly atheist person at that point in my life. I had become an atheist entirely on my own by default. I am now 69 years old, and have been married to the same woman for 47 years. I have never been arrested and have no criminal record. So I am not entirely sure how my personal history corresponds with your assumptions about atheists and their need to sin. Because I certainly know loads of Christians who have been married multiple times, have had affairs, and have been arrested. People who subscribe to make believe don't seem to be immune to living the very sorts lives themselves that they define as sinful.

I think that there will be a lot more Christians in this world if core Christianity allowed freedom of sex.

As the OP has pointed out, people overwhelmingly subscribe to the religion their parents indoctrinated them into. Which is why areas of the world are predominantly a specific religion. The urge for sex usually works itself out regardless of religious belief.

And while we are on this subject, it is my humble opinion that there are no "true" atheists. What I mean is, any reasonable person with common sense knows that deep down inside, there is a God. Everyone knows this.

This is like declaring that no one "truly" doubts the existence of Santa Claus. While it may come as a shock to fanatical Santa believers, there are in fact many individuals who reached the conclusion that the story of Santa is far too silly to be valid and true, and have moved on. The same is true for the existence of God. Atheists are not angry at God either. No such Being ever existed to begin with. And I can explain to you how everything exists naturally without the need for a creator Being. You of course will simply deny that any such explanation exists, or is possible.