Catholicism and original sin

[Justin108]

Can a Catholic please explain to me the concept of original sin? Do all people deserve to go to hell the moment they are born?

[myth-one.com]

Resurrection is the beginning of life in Christ. Thinking of the purpose, Resurrection is recreation of the Adam that died so long ago. So what is Adam supposed to do after being reborn? Resurrection is only the beginning toward true humanity.

I see resurrection as a metaphor for moving from spiritual death to spiritual life, life being a living relationship with God , like I believe Adam lost and Jesus had.

The Bible states that all mankind will be resurrected.

That's believers and nonbelievers.

So nonbelievers will be forced to begin a spiritual life in Christ and God?

[dio9]

[Replying to post 110 by dio9]

well Yes that's what I'm thinking resurrection begins the moment we first believe where Jesus is quoted in John's Gospel saying I am the resurrection and the life those who believe in me will never die.

John 11:25
" Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?�

This belief kind of reminds me of a video I just watched...the video can be used in this context as metaphor for the idea of existing forever...the idea of all human contracting the 'death' through adam and the 'life' through Jesus.

The video:
https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2 ... n-or-the-e

(watch the video at the bottom)

Therein the metaphor involves something which was (Adam), then something else (Jesus) came along to make it slightly something else.

The dna changes in this case represents an idea which is introduced into the equation causing those who contemplate the idea fully enough to grasp it/get the gist of it, to change - in this case - to change they way they think about themselves in relation to life and death.

My understanding of the way JWs believe they will be dead for however long it takes for them to be eventually be restored to the experience of living again, sees no difference in relation to what an individual would experience if they simply left their dead body and began an ongoing experience. The experience would seem immediate in either case.

We are of the same DNA as Jesus. The difference between him and us is our state of mind. Jesus was not stupid vulgar or a hypocrite. Resurrection is about leaving stupidity vulgarity and hypocrisy behind.

[myth-one.com]

Paul describes the resurrection of deceased Christians at the Second Coming in First Corinthians:

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:42-44)

The Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are resurrected as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies.

Resurrection is only the beginning toward true humanity.

Resurrected Christians are no longer humans.

Humans are not incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies.

That is how the resurrected bodies of Christians are described.

Speaking of those who shall inherit the Kingdom of God in the world to come, Jesus states:

Neither can they die any more, for they are equal unto the angels... (Luke 20:36)

So the resurrection of Christians is not "the beginning toward true humanity."

It is the end of their humanity.

Humans die, whereas angels live forever.

Human Christians are resurrected equal unto the angels.

We are no longer involved in humanity -- as we are no longer humans.

We are everlasting angelic beings.

[myth-one.com]

Some say all human beings are given an opportunity to accept God or not. For most, this likely occurs during their years on earth, but obviously that isn’t the case for babies. It also might not be the case for all adults. God in His mercy and judgment knows about our lives and if it was through our own fault that we might never have accepted Him. I always like to think we are all given a moment of clarity at the time of death, but I really don’t know.

Here is what the scriptures state:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

All mankind are like the first man Adam in that all die. Likewise, every human who ever died shall be resurrected or made alive again. But there is an order to the resurrections. Jesus was resurrected first:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all dead Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming."

Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Him and these resurrected believers in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

"We" refers to Christians -- as Paul wrote Corinthians to the Christians at Corinth.

So at this point after the first resurrection, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as spiritual beings. They will then enjoy the millennium with Jesus:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

Christianity divides mankind into two groups -- believers and nonbelievers.

All believers were born again into everlasting life at the Second Coming. The rest of the dead which remain are thus nonbelievers. They will be resurrected at the second resurrection for mankind which occurs after the thousand year Millennium:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (Revelation 20:4)

These will then face judgment:

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)

After the judgment of those resurrected in the second resurrection (nonbelievers), whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Be aware that absolutely none of those resurrected at the second resurrection had their names written in the book of life when resurrected! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection!

So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names.

What happened?

Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection. From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

Those nonbelievers who are now dead shall be preached the true gospel and make an informed decision about accepting or rejecting Jesus as their Savior after their first death!

The billions of humans who died never hearing or understanding about Jesus will make their decision after their first physical death!

This includes babies.

Now you know!

[Jack]

Original sin is an abuse of free will that renders us incapable of loving one another and loving God how we ought to.

[brianbbs67]

Original sin is an abuse of free will that renders us incapable of loving one another and loving God how we ought to.

Sin is defined as disobedience to the law. What was God's first law? Don't eat from that tree. They did, with some help. I think God knew they would. If He didn't, how is He God? This whole existance is preplanned and replanned as we go. We are a large scale Petri dish. That's also why we get forgiven, in my opinion.

[Jack]

God is perfect justice, so if we deserve hell we would get hell, but God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish, but might have eternal life.

[JehovahsWitness]

God is perfect justice, so if we deserve hell we would get hell, but God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish, but might have eternal life.

Jesus died to repair the damage incurred on us by our forefather Adam. We inherited sin and death from him (Adam) and Jesus died so that one day humans can live in peace forever on earth, with no sickness, death or suffering and enjoy a sin free existence as God originally intended.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




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[Jack]

I agree God does know all, but we also have a free will, and we can choose to accept His free gift of grace, or reject it and sin.

[Jack]

Jesus' passion death and resurrection was to reconcile us to God the Father, not just to live in some utopian society, but adopting us as son's to live with Him forever.