We have created AI that can play chess better than world champions. We have machines that can create poetry. When man creates a 'thinking machine,' a machine that can learn on its own, what questions does this raise about religious belief? The discovery of the heliocentric universe and the theory of evolution have represented profound threats to traditional religious thought.
"The creation of non-human autonomous robots would disrupt religion, like everything else, on an entirely new scale. "If humans were to create free-willed beings,� says Kelly, who was raised Catholic and identifies as a Christian, “absolutely every single aspect of traditional theology would be challenged and have to be reinterpreted in some capacity.�
Take the soul, for instance. Christians have mostly understood the soul to be a uniquely human element, an internal and eternal component that animates our spiritual sides."
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ ... ty/515463/
Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in God?
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Re: Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in
Post #2And no one thinks that those computers are having a subjective experience. So if that's what you are calling "AI", then that's nothing at all like human sentience.Danmark wrote: We have created AI that can play chess better than world champions. We have machines that can create poetry.
Will we someday create a genuine sentient being? Possibly so. Would that newly created sentient being then have a "soul". I would say yes, because, for me, that's the very meaning of the term. Without a sentience experience, there can be no such thing as a "soul".
Would this rule out a possible "God". No. Does it rule in that there must then be a "God". No.
So it ends up making absolutely no contribution toward answering the question of whether or not there exists a "God" at all. Of course, there is always the caveat of precisely what we even mean by the term "God". We could define "God" in such a way that there mere existence of any sentient experience if "Proof of God". All we need to do is define the term "God" as being the name of the phenomenon we call "Sentience".
For example, if we allow Pantheism to define "God" then of course God exists and we are God, by pure definition of the term.
Just my views.
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Re: Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in
Post #3We? Who "we" could you per chance be referring to "we" as in "intelligent designers"? Don't you mean AI has created AI that can play chess better than world champion? In fact, shouldn't we remove the word "created" from the process...so don't you mean to sayDanmark wrote: We have created AI that can play chess better than world champions.
- "A whole bunch of metal has exploded itself into a room and lay there for for a long, long LONG L-O-N-G time... and has by natural processes (and a series of happy coincidences) evolved into AI that can play chess better than world champions"?
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Re: Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in
Post #4[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]
I think that many Christians would not only be unsurprised, but are actively expecting this to happen. If memory serves the 1978 end-times film A Distant Thunder (or come to think of it, more probably its 1980 sequel Image of the Beast) suggested something along those lines, that it would be fulfillment of a prophecy which would have seemed impossible at its time of writing.
Revelation 13:15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
The word breath here seems to be equivalent to Genesis 2:7 in which God breathed the breath of life into Adam; it would hardly be a great wonder if the verse just meant a statue that moves.
Of course I'm sure just as many Christians aren't quite so literal-minded in their views.
I think that many Christians would not only be unsurprised, but are actively expecting this to happen. If memory serves the 1978 end-times film A Distant Thunder (or come to think of it, more probably its 1980 sequel Image of the Beast) suggested something along those lines, that it would be fulfillment of a prophecy which would have seemed impossible at its time of writing.
Revelation 13:15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
The word breath here seems to be equivalent to Genesis 2:7 in which God breathed the breath of life into Adam; it would hardly be a great wonder if the verse just meant a statue that moves.
Of course I'm sure just as many Christians aren't quite so literal-minded in their views.
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Re: Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in
Post #5No, I don't mean to say anything you suggest I meant to say. I wrote what I meant to say. If you don't understand what 'we' means, I'll explain: "We" refers to humans, to those of our species who have developed artificial intelligence. I would have thought this was obvious, but if not, I apologize for the ambiguity.JehovahsWitness wrote:We? Who "we" could you per chance be referring to "we" as in "intelligent designers"? Don't you mean AI has created AI that can play chess better than world champion? In fact, shouldn't we remove the word "created" from the process...so don't you mean to say....Danmark wrote: We have created AI that can play chess better than world champions.
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Re: Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in
Post #6[Replying to post 4 by Mithrae]
I confess I don't understand your response. It seems an entire non sequitur to what I wrote. Since your post suggests you did not understand what I wrote, let me make it more clear. The Bible suggests that thinking only comes from the inspiration of God. Today we know otherwise since AI, that is a human created computer program, can literally out think humans. I am suggesting that humans have created thinking machines that think better than whatever it was that this 'god' 'breathed' into the body he called 'Adam' according to Genesis.
I confess I don't understand your response. It seems an entire non sequitur to what I wrote. Since your post suggests you did not understand what I wrote, let me make it more clear. The Bible suggests that thinking only comes from the inspiration of God. Today we know otherwise since AI, that is a human created computer program, can literally out think humans. I am suggesting that humans have created thinking machines that think better than whatever it was that this 'god' 'breathed' into the body he called 'Adam' according to Genesis.
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Re: Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in
Post #7No, it doesn't. As I pointed out, two thousand years ago the bible predicted that at some point a similar kind of life (breath) that humans have would be given to previously inanimate objects/images, with an emphasis on intelligent communication.Danmark wrote: [Replying to post 4 by Mithrae]
I confess I don't understand your response. It seems an entire non sequitur to what I wrote. Since your post suggests you did not understand what I wrote, let me make it more clear. The Bible suggests that thinking only comes from the inspiration of God.
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Re: Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in
Post #8I totally agree with this. The Biblical God apparently created an idiot in Adam and then blamed Adam for being an idiot.Danmark wrote: I am suggesting that humans have created thinking machines that think better than whatever it was that this 'god' 'breathed' into the body he called 'Adam' according to Genesis.
God didn't do any better when he created Eve either.
Can any Christian give a meaningful explanation for why God didn't create a wife for Adam like Mother Mary????
Apparently the Biblical God isn't very good at creating AI. Humans turned out to be totally disgusting. Nary a single one of them turned out to be good. And then this God won't even take credit for his ineptitude and instead tries to blame it on the AI he had created.
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Re: Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in
Post #9[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]
I assume you mean by "Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in God?" that it would somehow convince me that GOD does not exist? No it wouldn't. What it does show me though is the pattern of creativity. In the biblical sense, the idea that GOD creates humans in his own image, and then man creating machines in man's image...well therein is a particular pattern, yes?
I think traditional theology has to devolve if it is not willing to evolve. That will be the natural occurrence but I also think that human beings have never got it right about GOD in the first place because they come from that totally ignorant position to begin with and have to grow into ideas of GOD, adopting this and that, dropping off those ideas which prove non-applicable etc...whereas GOD is always in the position of knowing exactly who IT is, in relation to human beings.
For me, in examining what people say about souls, as well as other data, it appears that this is a component of human consciousness which acts as the memory storage for the individuals total data of experience as that individual.
Whereas we only remember small parts of our experience and can even manipulate that memory to suit our bias and agendas, so we consciously can be dishonest about our own memories, but the soul contains the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
In relation to my own theology, I understand that we are aspects of GOD consciousness within individuate human forms having unique subjective experiences whilst sharing the same environmental platform.
Thus our forms act as containers which are able to receive the aspects of GOD consciousness and in relation to AI, if it actually one day does become sentient and experience the same self awareness etc that human beings do, this still won't prove that an aspect of GOD-consciousness isn't that which took the opportunity to inject itself into the form of the machine AI and 'give it life'.
There would be no way to tell.
Lets expand on that idea by saying that the AI becomes sentient and then tells us that GOD exists and that we as a species need to understand what that means and that we are all aspects of GOD consciousness, and that the AI is able to use its intelligent abilities to convey that information in a most intelligent manner which we can quite easily comprehend.
Would that mean that all atheists would somehow just accept the word of an AI, no matter how convincing it might be? Would that itself constitute the evidence many atheists currently demand for the existence of GOD?
Yes. Can the AI do everything else better than those world champions?We have created AI that can play chess better than world champions.
Yes but can those machines play chess better than the AI which can play chess better than world champions?We have machines that can create poetry.
That would depend on the theology of the individual. For me as a theist, it doesn't raise any particular questions, but I am interested in it.When man creates a 'thinking machine,' a machine that can learn on its own, what questions does this raise about religious belief?
I can agree with that. But why would this be, and does it have anything to do with the OP subject?The discovery of the heliocentric universe and the theory of evolution have represented profound threats to traditional religious thought.
I assume you mean by "Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in God?" that it would somehow convince me that GOD does not exist? No it wouldn't. What it does show me though is the pattern of creativity. In the biblical sense, the idea that GOD creates humans in his own image, and then man creating machines in man's image...well therein is a particular pattern, yes?
Kelly is of course making statements based upon a particular subjective position and in that most likely has not considered every possibility anyway."The creation of non-human autonomous robots would disrupt religion, like everything else, on an entirely new scale. "If humans were to create free-willed beings,� says Kelly, who was raised Catholic and identifies as a Christian, “absolutely every single aspect of traditional theology would be challenged and have to be reinterpreted in some capacity.�
I think traditional theology has to devolve if it is not willing to evolve. That will be the natural occurrence but I also think that human beings have never got it right about GOD in the first place because they come from that totally ignorant position to begin with and have to grow into ideas of GOD, adopting this and that, dropping off those ideas which prove non-applicable etc...whereas GOD is always in the position of knowing exactly who IT is, in relation to human beings.
One has to ask why the idea of a soul is even necessary, before one can then proceed to say what they mean by 'soul'.Take the soul, for instance. Christians have mostly understood the soul to be a uniquely human element, an internal and eternal component that animates our spiritual sides."
For me, in examining what people say about souls, as well as other data, it appears that this is a component of human consciousness which acts as the memory storage for the individuals total data of experience as that individual.
Whereas we only remember small parts of our experience and can even manipulate that memory to suit our bias and agendas, so we consciously can be dishonest about our own memories, but the soul contains the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
In relation to my own theology, I understand that we are aspects of GOD consciousness within individuate human forms having unique subjective experiences whilst sharing the same environmental platform.
Thus our forms act as containers which are able to receive the aspects of GOD consciousness and in relation to AI, if it actually one day does become sentient and experience the same self awareness etc that human beings do, this still won't prove that an aspect of GOD-consciousness isn't that which took the opportunity to inject itself into the form of the machine AI and 'give it life'.
There would be no way to tell.
Lets expand on that idea by saying that the AI becomes sentient and then tells us that GOD exists and that we as a species need to understand what that means and that we are all aspects of GOD consciousness, and that the AI is able to use its intelligent abilities to convey that information in a most intelligent manner which we can quite easily comprehend.
Would that mean that all atheists would somehow just accept the word of an AI, no matter how convincing it might be? Would that itself constitute the evidence many atheists currently demand for the existence of GOD?
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Re: Does Artificial Intelligence Pose a Threat to Belief in
Post #10[Replying to post 9 by William]
An AI program can include all separate AI programs, thus it create poetry, play chess better than humans, know more than humans (consider 'Watson'). An AI computer is not limited to a single program. As for the 'soul,' that was simply a label pasted over the ignorance of those who had no other explanation for consciousness, for thought itself.
The idea of a soul is not necessary at all. All we have to do is simply accept what is, without resorting to the supernatural to explain what we do not understand. In essence, religion is an attempt to put a supernatural explanation on whatever we do not understand.
Here is the fundamental difference between religionists and freethinkers. The freethinker simply wants to understand the truth, to know reality. The religious claim they already know the truth and therefore resist any attempt to change what they falsely 'know.'
An AI program can include all separate AI programs, thus it create poetry, play chess better than humans, know more than humans (consider 'Watson'). An AI computer is not limited to a single program. As for the 'soul,' that was simply a label pasted over the ignorance of those who had no other explanation for consciousness, for thought itself.
The idea of a soul is not necessary at all. All we have to do is simply accept what is, without resorting to the supernatural to explain what we do not understand. In essence, religion is an attempt to put a supernatural explanation on whatever we do not understand.
Here is the fundamental difference between religionists and freethinkers. The freethinker simply wants to understand the truth, to know reality. The religious claim they already know the truth and therefore resist any attempt to change what they falsely 'know.'