Are all white people guilty of slavery?

[jb41908]

Are all white people guilty of slavery because some white people owned slaves? Is collective guilt just, wise, or merciful?

How is it different than the notion that all people who ever exist being guilty of original sin?

[bluethread]

We have choices. We can choose to see ourselves as victims or we can choose to see our struggles as opportunities. We could just as easily say that we have all been "punished", because we were not born with the ability to fly.

We could say that, the question is, why don't you say it. We could be born with the ability to fly, but we can't fly through no fault of our own.

I don't say that because I don't see certain characteristics, or the lack thereof, as "punishment". The "due to no fault of their own" argument is silly. Complaining that something is not my fault, does not change anything. It is self centered and pitiful. In fact, it can mark people as a victims, and perpetuate their suffering. In those cases, such individuals can not rightly say it is "due to no fault of their own". It is their fault for accepting the mantle of "victim". Recognizing causes, especially proximate causes, is much more useful, if they are acted upon. It focuses the attention on the problem, where is belongs.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Are all white people guilty of slavery because some white people owned slaves?

No.

Is collective guilt just, wise, or merciful?

I think it can be. In considering that some of "my fellow whites" did them some horrors, I have a certain responsibility to show all my fellow whites, and even the "mud-skins", that folks ain't just the color of their skin. ("Mud-skins" to reflect the racist notion of here am all white and all, and how it is you ain't, as if that alone is argument for my 'superiority'.)

I kinda bear me a certain guilt of the sins of those before me, regardless of the color of their skin, in the way that I seek to understand their errors, their bigotry, and all such as that. I'm me a "proud white man", when it is I see the great and good works of some of my fellow "whites", just as I'm upset and disgusted at some of the things it is my fellow whites have done, do now, and are just as apt to do in the future.

Do I feel a sense of guilt over slavery?

Not near as much as I feel shame. Regardless of the colors involved.

[Bust Nak]

I don't say that because I don't see certain characteristics, or the lack thereof, as "punishment". The "due to no fault of their own" argument is silly. Complaining that something is not my fault, does not change anything. It is self centered and pitiful. In fact, it can mark people as a victims, and perpetuate their suffering. In those cases, such individuals can not rightly say it is "due to no fault of their own". It is their fault for accepting the mantle of "victim". Recognizing causes, especially proximate causes, is much more useful, if they are acted upon. It focuses the attention on the problem, where is belongs.

You can recognizing victimhood and still try and do something about it. The sense of injustice is a great motivator for action.

[bluethread]

You can recognizing victimhood and still try and do something about it. The sense of injustice is a great motivator for action.

Someone can indeed do two things at once. One can recognize their circumstances and the actions of others. One can also seek restitution from those who are the proximate cause of harm or acted to aid and abet in that harm. However, obsessing over the placing blame on those who were not the proximate cause and did not aid and abet the harm, only diverts energy from a solution.

[JoeyKnothead]

You can recognizing victimhood and still try and do something about it. The sense of injustice is a great motivator for action.

Someone can indeed do two things at once. One can recognize their circumstances and the actions of others. One can also seek restitution from those who are the proximate cause of harm or acted to aid and abet in that harm. However, obsessing over the placing blame on those who were not the proximate cause and did not aid and abet the harm, only diverts energy from a solution.

Please expound.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 35 by JoeyKnothead]

Like blaming Satan instead of realizing there are no gods or devils.

[bluethread]

You can recognizing victimhood and still try and do something about it. The sense of injustice is a great motivator for action.

Someone can indeed do two things at once. One can recognize their circumstances and the actions of others. One can also seek restitution from those who are the proximate cause of harm or acted to aid and abet in that harm. However, obsessing over the placing blame on those who were not the proximate cause and did not aid and abet the harm, only diverts energy from a solution.

Please expound.

A slave may have recourse against a slave owner, if that slavery is deemed to be unlawful. A slave may have recourse against a society that maintains a form of slavery that is deemed to be unjust. A slave may have recourse against someone who engages in commerce with a slaveholder, but to a lesser degree. However, that slave does not have recourse against those who did not engage in any of those activities. Also, that slave does not have unlimited recourse for perpetuity, even from those who did engage in those activities. The slave who does not take responsibility for his own actions and future prosperity remains a slave, even if he is not oppressed by anybody. In the latter case, the slave has himself to blame for his slavery.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 35 by JoeyKnothead]

Like blaming Satan instead of realizing there are no gods or devils.

That is an intersting twist on slavery. So, one should not blame the controller of the slave trade, but realize that there are no entrepreneurs or slaveholders?

[Bust Nak]

That is an intersting twist on slavery. So, one should not blame the controller of the slave trade, but realize that there are no entrepreneurs or slaveholders?

No, because there are indeed entrepreneurs and slaveholders. Instead one should not blame Satan for the slave trade, but realize that there are no gods or devils.

[bluethread]

That is an intersting twist on slavery. So, one should not blame the controller of the slave trade, but realize that there are no entrepreneurs or slaveholders?

No, because there are indeed entrepreneurs and slaveholders. Instead one should not blame Satan for the slave trade, but realize that there are no gods or devils.

I don't recall saying anything about HaSatan, or deities and evil spirits of any kind for that matter. So, how would that be part of my expounding on who is responsible for slavery?