Does prayer achieve anything?

[marco]

People congregate after a disaster and pray. Life goes on. People pray for someone to get better or for success. And churches across the globe have been praying for peace for centuries. There is no evidence that prayer has ever done anything for anyone. As a boy we used to pray for "the conversion of Russia."

Some people just pray to praise and thank God for all he's apparently done.

Is the point of prayer:

To give some psychological benefit?

Just to acknowledge God's authority and keep him from hurting us?

To ask in the hope of receiving a reward? One can always try.

Can anyone think of any other reason why folk should pray?

[Overcomer]

We pray to connect with God. We pray to ask for his wisdom, strength, comfort, peace, joy, courage, help, etc. in our daily lives. We pray about situations that are out of our hands, inviting God into them to make a difference.

But perhaps the greatest reason is simply this -- to fellowship with him. It is a wonderful thing to feel his presence, his love, his joy. Ultimately, all prayer is about our relationship with God. It's like any other relationship. The more time you spend with him, the better you get to know him, the greater your appreciation of him grows, the more you trust him because he proves himself worthy of that trust.

I have prayed countless prayers and seen countless answers -- answers that can't be coincidental, answers that are miraculous.

I repeat: We pray to connect with God because it's all about a relationship with him through Jesus Christ by the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

[marco]

We pray to connect with God. We pray to ask for his wisdom, strength, comfort, peace, joy, courage, help, etc. in our daily lives. We pray about situations that are out of our hands, inviting God into them to make a difference.

There is no harm in asking. Any port in a storm! As I've frequently pointed out, people in very desperate situations have prayed, with resulting silence. So God is selective in whom he answers. So we pray that we are lucky.

But perhaps the greatest reason is simply this -- to fellowship with him.

There can surely be no such thing as fellowship with a deity. The reward is a psychological one. Given the billion prayers that daily ascend, statistics is benign enough to award a fair amount and among that fair amount will be those that seem completely void of coincidence; seemingly miraculous. Chance works that way.

If someone is in extreme trouble, why do you think it necessary to ASK God for help when the situation is clearly seen? If a father saw his son drowning, would it be necessary for the son to ask for help before the father acted?

[1213]

People congregate after a disaster and pray. Life goes on. People pray for someone to get better or for success. And churches across the globe have been praying for peace for centuries...

Maybe so, but do they pray Trinity, or the Bible God?

...There is no evidence that prayer has ever done anything for anyone. As a boy we used to pray for "the conversion of Russia."...

Interesting thing that it seems your prayer has been answered and that has happened.

...Can anyone think of any other reason why folk should pray?

Jesus taught his disciples to pray “…Let your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth…� (Matt. 6:10). If I pray so, I pray it, because I want to ask from God that it happens.

[marco]

Maybe so, but do they pray Trinity, or the Bible God?

Does it matter? Do the Bible God prayers get answered while the Trinity ones don't?

...There is no evidence that prayer has ever done anything for anyone. As a boy we used to pray for "the conversion of Russia."...

Interesting thing that it seems your prayer has been answered and that has happened.

Well God took his time. I suspect it wasn't my little prayer that did it - more Mister Gorbachev.

...Can anyone think of any other reason why folk should pray?

Jesus taught his disciples to pray “…Let your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth…� (Matt. 6:10). If I pray so, I pray it, because I want to ask from God that it happens.

Do you understand what "let your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven " can possibly mean? Does God need that advice? And when Christ told us to pray, to our Father, who's in heaven, why did he have to mention the location of God inside the prayer? The meaning of "thy kingdom come" is unclear, given kingdom is a metaphor for something.

[OnceConvinced]

Is the point of prayer:

To give some psychological benefit?

As far as I can see this is probably the only real benefit of prayer. It gives you a psychological boost, which can aid with your confidence, self esteem, goals and even health.

When you believe that you have a supernatural power behind you, it is very enabling. It can help you overcome obstacles in your life.

I wrote an article about this one:
https://reckersworld.jimdo.com/religion ... d-placebo/

Just to acknowledge God's authority and keep him from hurting us?

Well it seems that praise and worship is all about giving God's ego a boost, whether he exists or not. There seems to be this way of thinking when it comes to gods that they require this praise and adoration. So anyone doing it is going to think they are gaining favour from their particular god. Don't we all love a bit of flattery from time to time?

I personally don't see why a god would need his ego stroked though. Imagine being a god and having all these people continually going on about how great and holy you are. As a god does he need to be reminded of that? No, a god would not require that sort of ass-kissing all the time.

To ask in the hope of receiving a reward? One can always try.

To me it seems that prayer achieves nothing when it comes to actual tangible benefits. Of course a believer will claim that God always answers prayer, but that is because they have fallen for this particular con job:

If you don't get what you want it's because God said "no" or "not just yet".
If you DO get what you want, then it's God giving it to you. "Hallelujah, he's answer my prayer!"

As you can see, even if God was not existent this would be the case. What better way to gain faith in a non-existent god?

I made this mock sermon on the topic and I think it makes a valid point:
https://reckersworld.jimdo.com/religion ... -to-exist/

Can anyone think of any other reason why folk should pray?

Maybe because Jesus recommended it? So we should all follow his example. The problem is, even Jesus didn't get his prayer answered:

John 17:20-23, "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be as one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

That's right. Jesus prayed that there would be unity amongst believers due to believing his message. So much for that! 2000 years on and we have more division than ever in Christianity.

[OnceConvinced]

We pray to connect with God. We pray to ask for his wisdom, strength, comfort, peace, joy, courage, help, etc. in our daily lives. We pray about situations that are out of our hands, inviting God into them to make a difference.

But perhaps the greatest reason is simply this -- to fellowship with him. It is a wonderful thing to feel his presence, his love, his joy. Ultimately, all prayer is about our relationship with God. It's like any other relationship. The more time you spend with him, the better you get to know him, the greater your appreciation of him grows, the more you trust him because he proves himself worthy of that trust.

Yes, believing you are in fellowship with a god can have a wonderful empowering feeling can't it? The answers seem so much crisper and clearer. So much wiser, it's got to be from God, right?

Prayer helps you to structure your thoughts and think clearer. It can make you feel as though you are special and that you can achieve anything. Nothing is too difficult when you believe you have a god on your side.

It's a powerful placebo.

I have prayed countless prayers and seen countless answers -- answers that can't be coincidental, answers that are miraculous.

And what about the times you don't get what you prayed for? Did you put that down to God saying "no" or "wait"? I wonder how many more times you got the "no" or the "wait" answer when praying as opposed to the "yes".

When you really think about that, it makes the "yes's" seem less miraculous.

How many times have you prayed over and over for the same thing but yet seen no benefit? I'm guessing that most prayers you pray you have been praying for years and years and seen no result, right?

It used to be the same for me too, but there were always apparent answers to prayers... ones that seemed miraculous at the time, that I continued to point to every time I thought about prayer. Big things that kept my faith in prayer rolling along, even though in reality the majority of my prayers had no affect whatsoever.

Really, if you are honest with yourself, what is your success rate when it comes to praying and seeing some kind of tangible result? That is the only real way to tell whether prayer works. If it's a "no" or a "wait" you can't really claim that as a positive prayer result.

[1213]

Does it matter? Do the Bible God prayers get answered while the Trinity ones don't?

The promises are from Bible God, not from Trinity. If one prays different god, it is not reasonable to expect ansers.

Do you understand what "let your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven " can possibly mean? Does God need that advice? And when Christ told us to pray, to our Father, who's in heaven, why did he have to mention the location of God inside the prayer? The meaning of "thy kingdom come" is unclear, given kingdom is a metaphor for something.

I don’t think God needs advice. I think the prayer is more about people giving permission or approval.

I don’t think kingdom is a metaphor. Jesus is the king and those who follow him, form the kingdom.

[OnceConvinced]

Does it matter? Do the Bible God prayers get answered while the Trinity ones don't?

The promises are from Bible God, not from Trinity. If one prays different god, it is not reasonable to expect ansers.

I too don't see what difference it would make. If a believer is praying to anyone of the Trinity he believes he is praying to the bible god. I'm sure the bible god would be well aware of that and would understand who it is they're trying to pray to.

Surely his grace would be sufficient, even if they are unwittingly praying wrongly?

I don't think God is as pedantic as the JW version of God who gets all huffy because you used the wrong name when praying to him. It's all about intents of the heart. The intent to pray to someone like Jesus is an intent to pray to the bible god.

If God didn't want us praying to Jesus to get to him, then he shouldn't have allowed Jesus to say this: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

When I think back to my own Christian walk, when I prayed I sometimes used the name "Jesus" and sometimes "God." I would chop and change throughout the prayer. God would be one very stupid god if he got confused and only listened to parts of my prayers while ignoring the others because he thought I was praying to a different god. What a dimwit! And if he ignored me on principle, what a very petty and pedantic god he would be!

Do you really think God would be concerned over what name we referred to him as? I mean even if we called him "Charlie" would it be such a slight to his ego?

I don’t think God needs advice. I think the prayer is more about people giving permission or approval.

Why would a god who knows our hearts and minds require us to officially give him permission or approval? Why would he not just go ahead and do it without us having to verbally ok it? He knows what we want.

It's like with your own children, you know what they like and don't need to ask them. If you know that they love chocolate, you just give it to them anyway because you know they will want it.

And since when did God ever seek permission or approval? He's a "my way or the highway" type of God. Whatever he wants he gets and if you don't conform he sends disaster and curses upon you as we see in the OT. He's even willing to violate free will at times (as we see with Pharaoh, King Saul and the Midianites when he forced them all to slay each other).

[Clownboat]

People congregate after a disaster and pray. Life goes on. People pray for someone to get better or for success. And churches across the globe have been praying for peace for centuries. There is no evidence that prayer has ever done anything for anyone. As a boy we used to pray for "the conversion of Russia."

Some people just pray to praise and thank God for all he's apparently done.

Is the point of prayer:

To give some psychological benefit?

Just to acknowledge God's authority and keep him from hurting us?

To ask in the hope of receiving a reward? One can always try.

Can anyone think of any other reason why folk should pray?

Prayer is the best way to feel like you are helping someone without actually having to do anything.

Christian A: So, I hear you had a pipe burst and your basement is flooding. I'll keep you in my prayers.
Atheist A: So, I hear you had a pipe burst and your basement is flooding. I'll grab my shop vac and will be right over.

The people in both scenarios can feel like they helped, however, only the atheist did any actual helping. The Christian just gets to go on with life feeling like he did something in this case.