Does prayer achieve anything?

[marco]

People congregate after a disaster and pray. Life goes on. People pray for someone to get better or for success. And churches across the globe have been praying for peace for centuries. There is no evidence that prayer has ever done anything for anyone. As a boy we used to pray for "the conversion of Russia."

Some people just pray to praise and thank God for all he's apparently done.

Is the point of prayer:

To give some psychological benefit?

Just to acknowledge God's authority and keep him from hurting us?

To ask in the hope of receiving a reward? One can always try.

Can anyone think of any other reason why folk should pray?

[OnceConvinced]

Do atheists or agnostics ever praise something without prior calculation to how such praising might benefit themselves?

I can only speak for myself, but I praise when praise is due, without the thought of any benefit for myself. Sometimes I do it simply to build up the self-esteem of the person I'm praising.

However no god needs their self esteem built up. In fact no god needs any kind of praise or worship at all, unless they were either very insecure or narcissistic.

As a Christian I used to praise God all the time and did so in my prayers too, but it wasn't to gain any benefit. It was simply because I thought god was worthy of praise and also the bible says we should.

Did praising god achieve anything? I don't think so... apart from making myself feel as though I was connecting with God.

[Kenisaw]

Do atheists or agnostics ever praise something without prior calculation to how such praising might benefit themselves?

Nope (even if they don't realize it), and neither do believers. Everything we do can be boiled down to selfishness.

Let's fact it Liam, why does any believer praise their god? Because they are supposed to, and if they do what they are supposed to then they get into Valhalla or heaven or the Fields of Elysium. They do it for themselves. It's selfish.

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 11 by OnceConvinced]

Hello OC!

How do you know that you are the only people who gave money to the orphanage? We are to not let the right hand know what the left is doing. Also, prayer isn't scraping the bottom of the spiritual barrel. It is the most effective thing we can do. "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." I have found this to be so true in my life.

[Peds nurse]

Why do we talk to anyone? Do we just talk to people who give us what we want, or do we talk to those we trust? I pray because I trust God. I am going to use an analogy.

I love to fish....a lot! When I cast my line out, I don't know where the fish are. I cast my line out in faith that the fish are there. Sometimes I get a nibble. Sometimes I catch a good fish. And yet there are times when I don't catch anything at all. No matter what happens, I don't leave doubting that there are fish in the lake. I know there are fish in the lake. The times it is quiet are probably my best times, for it is then that I reflect and learn the most.

I feel God is like that. I cast my cares to him. Sometimes I feel His presence. Sometimes I get an answer right away, and yet other times, I am called to reflect and learn in the silence. I don't ever doubt that because I don't get the answer in the form I would like, that He isn't listening.

[amortalman]

Why do we talk to anyone? Do we just talk to people who give us what we want, or do we talk to those we trust? I pray because I trust God. I am going to use an analogy.

I love to fish....a lot! When I cast my line out, I don't know where the fish are. I cast my line out in faith that the fish are there. Sometimes I get a nibble. Sometimes I catch a good fish. And yet there are times when I don't catch anything at all. No matter what happens, I don't leave doubting that there are fish in the lake. I know there are fish in the lake. The times it is quiet are probably my best times, for it is then that I reflect and learn the most.

I feel God is like that. I cast my cares to him. Sometimes I feel His presence. Sometimes I get an answer right away, and yet other times, I am called to reflect and learn in the silence. I don't ever doubt that because I don't get the answer in the form I would like, that He isn't listening.

I think you're probably a very nice person and you are obviously at peace with your faith in God. But I think also that you have built a comfortable little playhouse wherein you have placed your answers to life's dilemmas. In this playhouse, in the room called Prayer, you sat and wrote the analogy you presented. If this satisfies your deeper curiosities about unanswered prayer, fine. All is well in the Never-never land.

[amortalman]

People congregate after a disaster and pray. Life goes on. People pray for someone to get better or for success. And churches across the globe have been praying for peace for centuries. There is no evidence that prayer has ever done anything for anyone. As a boy we used to pray for "the conversion of Russia."

Some people just pray to praise and thank God for all he's apparently done.

Is the point of prayer:

To give some psychological benefit?

Just to acknowledge God's authority and keep him from hurting us?

To ask in the hope of receiving a reward? One can always try.

Can anyone think of any other reason why folk should pray?

Confusion about prayer among Christians reigns supreme. Consider the source - the Bible!

The Bible has quite a bit to say about prayer...and very little of it is congruous. Consider the verses that make an attempt at it:

1) Jhn 14:13 “Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

2) Jhn 14:14 “If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it."

3) Jhn 14:13 “Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

Here the Master himself makes it very clear that "whatever" and "anything" you ask of him he will do. No confusion so far. No stipulations, no barriers. Wouldn't that be nice if it were true?


4) Jhn 15:7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you."

Aw shucks! Barrier #1 - We have to abide in him and his words abide in us (whatever that means). Could have mentioned that off the bat.


5) Mat 21:22 “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.�

Barrier #2 - Now we have to really, truly, believe we're gonna get it or we won't get it. Jesus keeps changing the rules. I guess a lot of people were testing him on those first promises.


6) Jas 4:3 "You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures."

Barrier #3 - Seeing as how Jesus himself couldn't settle in on what it takes to get prayers answered James, Jesus' brother, wades in and confuses things even further and providing yet another excuse for unanswered prayer. Whatever happened to "whatever" and "everything"?


The thing is countless Christian authors have stepped up to the plate to try to make sense of this conundrum yet the task is like a blind man trying to put a mismatched jigsaw puzzle together in a dark room while wearing mittens.

Wouldn't you think the creator of everything could have made it a little clearer? Yet the Bible tells us that God is not the author of confusion. What the....?

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 11 by OnceConvinced]

Hello OC!

How do you know that you are the only people who gave money to the orphanage? We are to not let the right hand know what the left is doing.

Note that I was referring only to those who were responding on that Facebook page.

Those of us on Facebook were only able to send donations through GoFundMe and it lists all those who have given and how much. There was one other person who donated at the time we did for the operation so they may have been a Christian, I don't know. The fact was there was no money coming from all those others on Facebook who were saying "we'll pray for you."

Apparently enough money was raised for the op in the end, but I don't know where the rest of the money eventually came from. All I know is that is it wasn't from the ones on Facebook who were saying "We'll pray for you."

Also, prayer isn't scraping the bottom of the spiritual barrel. It is the most effective thing we can do.

I don't see how it can be, because in the long run it's human beings who send the money.

"The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." I have found this to be so true in my life.

I have not seen any real proof of that scripture myself and I was a genuine believer for many years as you know. I have heard thousands of claims of God answering prayers but very few stories that stand out as not possibly having some natural explanation. Even then it's impossible to know whether the person giving their testimony is being truthful or presumptuous.

I think if we are honest with ourselves, we will see that the majority of prayer that is answered is actually is as a result of human intervention, not anything obviously supernatural. There is usually a human involved at some stage, even if it is the person doing the praying.

When I was a Christian I thought God was doing some powerful things in my life and answering prayers which I had been praying for a long time. He was finally coming through for me. However when I look at it now I see that it wasn't God that came through for me. It was me taking positive actions to achieve those goals.

[OnceConvinced]

Why do we talk to anyone? Do we just talk to people who give us what we want, or do we talk to those we trust?

But does it achieve anything apart from the placebo affect? (ie making you feel better psychologically). I still do a similar thing these days. I think things through like I'm praying. I used to do that to God, now I don't. I get the same good feelings and the same clarity.

I pray because I trust God.

But really what does it achieve apart from you feeling psychologically better?

I love to fish....a lot! When I cast my line out, I don't know where the fish are. I cast my line out in faith that the fish are there. Sometimes I get a nibble. Sometimes I catch a good fish. And yet there are times when I don't catch anything at all. No matter what happens, I don't leave doubting that there are fish in the lake. I know there are fish in the lake. The times it is quiet are probably my best times, for it is then that I reflect and learn the most.

Do you claim it to be a miracle when you catch a fish?

The thing about catching fish is its also easy to exaggerate just how wonderful the fish is. You can never tell whether what that person caught really was that huge monster of a fish or just a little tiny one.

I feel God is like that. I cast my cares to him. Sometimes I feel His presence. Sometimes I get an answer right away, and yet other times, I am called to reflect and learn in the silence.

This sounds very like the placebo effect to me. You thinking things through as if to God and then feeling better. Feeling like there has been clarity. If you are like me you also heard very wise words coming. Crystal clear wisdom that just seems to brilliant. I still get that, but now no it's simply me and of course it sounds brilliant because I came up with it from seemingly no where. Like a revelation.

I don't ever doubt that because I don't get the answer in the form I would like, that He isn't listening.

You can always use one of the following excuses can't you?

He's saying "no"
He's saying "not yet"
He's saying "how about this instead?"

All great excuses too if you want to believe in a non-existent god.

[OnceConvinced]

Barrier #3 - Seeing as how Jesus himself couldn't settle in on what it takes to get prayers answered James, Jesus' brother, wades in and confuses things even further and providing yet another excuse for unanswered prayer. Whatever happened to "whatever" and "everything"?


The thing is countless Christian authors have stepped up to the plate to try to make sense of this conundrum yet the task is like a blind man trying to put a mismatched jigsaw puzzle together in a dark room while wearing mittens.

Wouldn't you think the creator of everything could have made it a little clearer? Yet the Bible tells us that God is not the author of confusion. What the....?

One has to wonder if perhaps James saw that the gospels weren't true when making those assurances so felt the need to add some conditions himself.

The thing is even when you ask with the right motives, prayer still doesn't work.

[rstrats]

There probably are at least a few hundred prayers being said around the globe at any given moment. I wonder how they can all be kept separate and considered?