Why did God intervene in Exodus but not during the Holocaust

[Justin108]

Why did God intervene in Exodus but not during the Holocaust?

Most would agree genocide to be worse than slavery. Not only is killing the Jews worse than enslaving him, but far more Jews were involved in the Holocaust than were enslaved in Egypt. The Holocaust killed around 6 million Jews whereas the Jewish slaves in Egypt were a few hundred thousand. Wouldn't it have made more sense for God to intervene during the Holocaust than for him to intervene during Exodus?

[nolidad]

[Replying to post 22 by nolidad]

You know this God of your can abide pulsars, but not sin?
Earthquakes, but not sin?

Basically, he can't abide the the minds of men, the corrupted minds of men, from an ailment he created?

Besides, isn't he everywhere and anytime? So where can sin be performed aways from God that it isn't in his presence?

Sin happens all the time, where is the corrective action?
Do not say "a long time from now, in a dimension far away."

One error of yours is that God did not create sin- but foreknew it would happen and allowed it for His purposes. He did not create sin- just gave first Lucifer, then Adam and Eve the capacity to choose for HIm or against HIm.

Do not fret. God is patient not wishing people to be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.

2 Peter 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[nolidad]

[Replying to post 22 by nolidad]

You know this God of your can abide pulsars, but not sin?
Earthquakes, but not sin?

Basically, he can't abide the the minds of men, the corrupted minds of men, from an ailment he created?

Besides, isn't he everywhere and anytime? So where can sin be performed aways from God that it isn't in his presence?

Sin happens all the time, where is the corrective action?
Do not say "a long time from now, in a dimension far away."

One error of yours is that God did not create sin- but foreknew it would happen and allowed it for His purposes. He did not create sin- just gave first Lucifer, then Adam and Eve the capacity to choose for HIm or against HIm.

Do not fret. God is patient not wishing people to be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.

2 Peter 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He invites all to come to repentance and salvation by trusting in teh death, burial and physical resurrection of Jesus for their sin debt befoe the Father!

[Willum]

[Replying to post 31 by nolidad]

If he created freewill, AND he created his own will, and vying away from his own will was sin, then he certainly created sin.

To light a candle is to create a shadow. -Ursula Le Guin

As to Hell, well, myself, I'd rather burn in Hell with an unredeemed Gandhi, then party in Heaven with a redeemed Hitler.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by Justin108]

Surely the question could be broadened to "Why does God not intervene at every occasion of suffering?"

Here is from C.S. Lewis on a world of supposedly free souls who, however, could never inflict pain on one another:

Such a world would be one in which wrong actions were impossible, and in which, therefore, freedom of the will would be void; nay, if the principle were carried out to its logical conclusion, evil thoughts would be impossible, for the cerebral matter which we use in thinking would refuse its task when we attempted to frame them. All matter in the neighborhood of a wicked man would be liable to undergo unpredictable alterations. That God can and does, on occasions, modify the behavior of matter and produce what we call miracles, is part of Christian faith; but the very conception of a common, and therefore stable, world, demands that these occasions should be extremely rare.

Elsewhere he talks of sticks becoming limp as spaghetti when used as weapons.

I propose all such questions boil down to the big one "Would it have been better for God never to have created a world of free souls?"

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 22 by nolidad]

You know this God of your can abide pulsars, but not sin?
Earthquakes, but not sin?

Basically, he can't abide the the minds of men, the corrupted minds of men, from an ailment he created?

Besides, isn't he everywhere and anytime? So where can sin be performed aways from God that it isn't in his presence?

Sin happens all the time, where is the corrective action?
Do not say "a long time from now, in a dimension far away."

One error of yours is that God did not create sin- but foreknew it would happen and allowed it for His purposes. He did not create sin- just gave first Lucifer, then Adam and Eve the capacity to choose for HIm or against HIm.

Do not fret. God is patient not wishing people to be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.

2 Peter 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He invites all to come to repentance and salvation by trusting in teh death, burial and physical resurrection of Jesus for their sin debt befoe the Father!

That's news to the Bible.

Isaiah 45:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. [kjv]

If God is omnipotent and omniscient, then God created everything in the full foreknowledge of what would occur. And God got exactly the result He intended to get. If God DID NOT get the result He intended to get, then He FAILED.

[bluethread]

I was being picturesque, bluethread. The God depicted in the OT who kills at a whim is indeed a thug. Humans are handicapped, but do the best they can. Remember this is the picture of God that primitives have painted; he may well be a nice being with a sense of humour. We wouldn't know.

My point is the He is a different life form. Let's make this analogy a little tighter. We breed life forms for the purpose of eating them. We don't have to do that. We are even starting to create life forms in the lab, for our own benefit? We don't have to do that either. So, are those in that business thugs?

I think a bigger difference is that other cultures did not contemplate murdering children to meet their principles, or they would have merited the same condemnation. But you are right in implying it is an easy descent into hell. However, we're dealing with the deity not the Nazis .... but it's easy to get confused.

Not true, Margaret Sanger established Planned Parenthood, in part, for the purpose of reducing the black population, anytime, even moments before birth. Eugenics was all the rage. The U.S. had internment camps based on nationality. Roosevelt and the Democrats conscripted private industry into government service, a Fascist economic principle, with the NRA. Your appeal to mortality a cop out. In that day, one might have asked why Adonai did not make all poor people sterile. Why do we have to do it? One might also ask why Adonai made people so sensitive. Taken to it's logical conclusion, one might ask why man was created at all.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

I was being picturesque, bluethread. The God depicted in the OT who kills at a whim is indeed a thug. Humans are handicapped, but do the best they can. Remember this is the picture of God that primitives have painted; he may well be a nice being with a sense of humour. We wouldn't know.

My point is the He is a different life form. Let's make this analogy a little tighter. We breed life forms for the purpose of eating them. We don't have to do that. We are even starting to create life forms in the lab, for our own benefit? We don't have to do that either. So, are those in that business thugs?

I think a bigger difference is that other cultures did not contemplate murdering children to meet their principles, or they would have merited the same condemnation. But you are right in implying it is an easy descent into hell. However, we're dealing with the deity not the Nazis .... but it's easy to get confused.

Not true, Margaret Sanger established Planned Parenthood, in part, for the purpose of reducing the black population, anytime, even moments before birth. Eugenics was all the rage. The U.S. had internment camps based on nationality. Roosevelt and the Democrats conscripted private industry into government service, a Fascist economic principle, with the NRA. Your appeal to mortality a cop out. In that day, one might have asked why Adonai did not make all poor people sterile. Why do we have to do it? One might also ask why Adonai made people so sensitive. Taken to it's logical conclusion, one might ask why man was created at all.

That is a race baiting and considerably excessive overstatement.

Wikipedia
Margaret Sanger
Work with the African-American community
Sanger worked with African American leaders and professionals who saw a need for birth control in their communities. In 1929, James H. Hubert, a black social worker and the leader of New York's Urban League, asked Sanger to open a clinic in Harlem.[75] Sanger secured funding from the Julius Rosenwald Fund and opened the clinic, staffed with black doctors, in 1930. The clinic was directed by a 15-member advisory board consisting of black doctors, nurses, clergy, journalists, and social workers. The clinic was publicized in the African-American press as well as in black churches, and it received the approval of W. E. B. Du Bois, the co-founder of the NAACP and the editor of its magazine, The Crisis.

Sanger did not tolerate bigotry among her staff, nor would she tolerate any refusal to work within interracial projects.[80] Sanger's work with minorities earned praise from Martin Luther King, Jr., in his 1966 acceptance speech for the Margaret Sanger award.

Eugenics
Sanger’s view of eugenics was influenced by Havelock Ellis and other British eugenicists who held that environmentally acquired traits were inherited by one’s progeny. Consequently, she rejected race and ethnicity as determining factors. Instead she stressed limiting the number of births to live within one’s economic ability to raise and support healthy children. This would lead to a betterment of society and the human race. Sanger’s view put her at odds with leading American eugenicists, such as Charles Davenport who took a racist view of inherited traits. She continually rejected their approach.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 28 by Overcomer]

We have to go right back to the beginning to answer that question. God created humankind to be in a loving relationship with him. He told them not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil because he did not want them to ever know evil.

If God did not WANT humankind to know evil, then why did God purposely put the serpent in the garden with Adam and Eve, with full foreknowledge of EXACTLY what would occur?

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 1 by Justin108]

Surely the question could be broadened to "Why does God not intervene at every occasion of suffering?"

How about answering the question I actually asked? If you want a new question for debate, open a new topic.

Here is from C.S. Lewis on a world of supposedly free souls who, however, could never inflict pain on one another:

Such a world would be one in which wrong actions were impossible, and in which, therefore, freedom of the will would be void; nay, if the principle were carried out to its logical conclusion, evil thoughts would be impossible, for the cerebral matter which we use in thinking would refuse its task when we attempted to frame them. All matter in the neighborhood of a wicked man would be liable to undergo unpredictable alterations. That God can and does, on occasions, modify the behavior of matter and produce what we call miracles, is part of Christian faith; but the very conception of a common, and therefore stable, world, demands that these occasions should be extremely rare.

Elsewhere he talks of sticks becoming limp as spaghetti when used as weapons.

I propose all such questions boil down to the big one "Would it have been better for God never to have created a world of free souls?"

So it's all or nothing? Either God always intervenes or he never intervenes? If intervention from God somehow inhibits our freedom of choice, why did he intervene during Exodus? There's a reason my OP doesn't just ask "why did God not intervene during the Holocaust". I want to know why Exodus moved God to intervene, but the Holocaust didn't.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 1 by Justin108]

Miracles are not spread evenly throughout the Bible; they cluster around the two major events of the Bible--God's established covenant with Israel, and then Christ's covenant with the church. After the Exodus, the appearance of miracles dwindle; after the gospels, Acts reports only a few miracles. Divine intervention is an exception

What exactly was exceptional about Egypt holding Jewish slaves that prompted divine intervention?