How do we show Yahweh is true or false?

[marco]

We waste a lot of time patiently finding statements in the Bible that give Yahweh's view on this or that. I am firmly convinced that Yahweh is a fabrication. Is he a good fabrication? Obviously many people accept him and his exploits, so to some extent he is well constructed.

But if I were visited by some Christian people keen to enlighten me, what might I say that would turn them from their staunch belief and at least let them consider they might be wrong?

What is the best way to illustrate that Yahweh is a fiction?

Or, if one supposes he's real, how can one demonstrate his reality?

(I am dealing exclusively with Yahweh, not his relatives.)

[Willum]

[Replying to post 10 by marco]

You know I believe that it was old Tiberius Caesar who fomented Christianity, or at least it was viciously dedicated to him:
They were both demi-gods, both living around the same time, Isaiah describes Tiberius uncannily, and the gifts of the Magi were Tiberius' favorite things.

So, I venture a little further to observe, it would be just like Tiberius to re-write the poor Hebrew scriptures so that, as a joke that would not be lost in translation: Tiberius had God show Moses, and by proxy, Judaism, his rear-end for worship...

Just saying, it would be like him.

[ttruscott]

The only infallible method I know is when / if YHWH makes HIS existence known to you undeniably... There would seem to be no equivalent for the proof of HIS non-existence.

[Inigo Montoya]

[Replying to post 12 by ttruscott]

Has YHWH made his existence undeniably known to you personally?

[Elijah John]

We waste a lot of time patiently finding statements in the Bible that give Yahweh's view on this or that. I am firmly convinced that Yahweh is a fabrication. Is he a good fabrication? Obviously many people accept him and his exploits, so to some extent he is well constructed.

But if I were visited by some Christian people keen to enlighten me, what might I say that would turn them from their staunch belief and at least let them consider they might be wrong?

What is the best way to illustrate that Yahweh is a fiction?

Or, if one supposes he's real, how can one demonstrate his reality?

(I am dealing exclusively with Yahweh, not his relatives.)

Don't you think it is possible that there is a Divine reality that underlies the layers of myth and legend with which the authors of the Bible have disguised Him?

Remember, His name means "I AM that I AM". Sounds like the Ground of Being to me.

[1213]

However, is the default position that Yahweh is real? Do we simply accept this, and every account of his words and deeds, with not a single analytical thought?

I don’t see any reason why one should not have analytical thoughts. I only hope people are honest and remain in truth, then there will be no problems.

… When he claims that a rainbow is the sign of his contract, you realise that primitive folk had no idea what made a rainbow - and one suspects that neither did Yahweh….

The conditions on earth were different before the flood. It is possible that there were no rainbows before the flood. And even if God set it, it doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work by natural laws.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

What is the best way to illustrate that Yahweh is a fiction?

Depends on the Christian. For me, a strong case would consist in showing that the concept of YHWH would naturally arise from the cultural milieu in which it did arise: a comparison of religions in Egypt or Palestine.

Or, if one supposes he's real, how can one demonstrate his reality?

I do not think anything would convince someone on this forum of YHWH's existence; for I do not think any here have a criteria for belief other than the murky criterion of moral behavior.

(I am dealing exclusively with Yahweh, not his relatives.)

Good, since as far as I know YHWH has no relatives.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 14 by Elijah John]

Interesting, like a rhino being a unicorn, or a monitor lizard being a dragon?

I'd propose that a man would be the reality that underlies the layers of myth and legend of which God is constructed.

[Mithrae]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

What is the best way to illustrate that Yahweh is a fiction?

Depends on the Christian. For me, a strong case would consist in showing that the concept of YHWH would naturally arise from the cultural milieu in which it did arise: a comparison of religions in Egypt or Palestine.

The struggle seems to be finding things which can plausibly be viewed as 'supernatural,' rather than the opposite. Have you ever wondered why, after the seemingly legendary figures of David and Solomon, not a single king of Judah "removed the high places" for over two centuries; not even supposedly righteous rulers like Asa and Jehoshaphat? (In fact even Solomon was said to have had them; only the wondrous David had a 'pure' reign!) The most plausible conclusion seems to be that centralized worship was an innovation of Hezekiah after the influx of refugees from the northern kingdom which Assyria conquered during his reign. The book of the law which was 'found' during Josiah's rule is another curious feature. Josiah was the only other king to "remove the high places," and this was not long before Jeremiah warned against the "lying pen of the scribes." It's unclear whether Jeremiah's condemnation was against Josiah's reforms or some other version of the law of 'Moses.'

It looks like a religion which was evolved organically, not imposed supernaturally.

[Kenisaw]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

What is the best way to illustrate that Yahweh is a fiction?

Depends on the Christian. For me, a strong case would consist in showing that the concept of YHWH would naturally arise from the cultural milieu in which it did arise: a comparison of religions in Egypt or Palestine.

The struggle seems to be finding things which can plausibly be viewed as 'supernatural,' rather than the opposite. Have you ever wondered why, after the seemingly legendary figures of David and Solomon, not a single king of Judah "removed the high places" for over two centuries; not even supposedly righteous rulers like Asa and Jehoshaphat? (In fact even Solomon was said to have had them; only the wondrous David had a 'pure' reign!) The most plausible conclusion seems to be that centralized worship was an innovation of Hezekiah after the influx of refugees from the northern kingdom which Assyria conquered during his reign. It looks like a religion which was evolved organically, not imposed supernaturally.

I think that is historically accurate, along with the migration of Yahweh from the southern trading and nomadic peoples of the Edom region.