Christians, what would it take?

[Inigo Montoya]

What would have to happen for you Christians to abandon your beliefs in God, miracles, the accuracy of the Bible's stories, etc.?

We have a couple panentheists, at least one Muslim, and heaven knows what else frequenting this subforum; you folk feel free to chime in on your respective versions of "God/god" and apply the OP to it as you see fit.

On a personal note, I'm especially anxious to hear from Ted and FtK, Goose and BThread.

[JehovahsWitness]

What would have to happen for you Christians to abandon your beliefs in God, miracles, the accuracy of the Bible's stories, etc.?

We have a couple panentheists, at least one Muslim, and heaven knows what else frequenting this subforum; you folk feel free to chime in on your respective versions of "God/god" and apply the OP to it as you see fit.

On a personal note, I'm especially anxious to hear from Ted and FtK, Goose and BThread.

Someone would have to convince me that what I believe to be true is in fact false. I cannot say what that would be because if I came across it, I would not be a believer.

To illustrate: What would convince me that "gravity" did not actually exist. Well if GRAVITY is "the force that attracts a body towards the centre of the earth, or towards any other physical body having mass" I suppose that would be that there was no earth, that the earth was in fact flat, that "centre" didn't exist, that everything was in fact floating in space.. etc etc.

I can't say specifically WHAT would convince me (above and beyond "convincing evidence") that we were all, for example floating in space rather than walking on solid ground, ie I cannot say "if someone did or demonstrated XYZ it would be enough" because as such this mysterious evidence hasn't been presented to me and defies the logic of the paradigm within which I exist. I can only say I hope to be reasonable enough to accept such theoretical evidence should it one day be presented to me to convince me that ....

That there is no God ...
That the bible is not God's word and it's contents inaccurate...
That miracles are impossible ...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


Ps: I think a lot of believers and certainly, in my experience, many Jehovah's Witnesses actually started from the position that all the above was indeed FALSE and came to accept these fundamental truths after extensive research, study and personal investigation. In any case , that was certainly the the case for me, so a reversal of position would entail the revelation of new information or perspective hitherto unexamined. Someone can lose faith or renounce their religion out of fear or other pressures, but that is rarely to be confused with disbelief in the fundamentals of Christian belief.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

Soooooo, essentially rephrasing the OP, because you didn't actually answer it...
What would convince you God was not real?
How can you fail to see the Bible's contents are inaccurate?
And miracles occur without divine will?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

Soooooo, essentially rephrasing the OP, because you didn't actually answer it...

Fair enough, I admit that I read the OP to mean "what would convince you ..." but upon closer look at the wording, I see that the question wasn't about what information I would need to change my position but rather "what would have to "happen to make me "abandon my beliefs" and that is not the same thing.

What would have to happen for you Christians to abandon your beliefs in God, miracles, the accuracy of the Bible's stories, etc.?

So, essentially the question as worded is not what information would convince me to change my posion but being convinced of some fundamental truths, what would have have to happen TO me (or in the world in general) to abandon those truths? ie. "What would have to happen for me to abandon what I know (believe) to be true?" The answer to this is much much simplier...

As long as I believe something to be true I will never abandon those beliefs. Nothing, not even death could make be abandon truth, for a life without truth is not worth living.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS





RELATED POSTS

Doubting Thomas: Is there anything wrong in needing evidence?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 969#904969

What is faith?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 479#904479

[Willum]

[Replying to post 4 by JehovahsWitness]

Well, this is an improvement:
Usually we are on page 10 by the time you start quibbling over phrases, and somehow wording, or language inefficiency proves the existence of God.

Are we going to go forward from here, or skip to your abandoning the post in a huff?

I mean no one is asking you to abandon anything true, or in any way profound: Just asking what would it take to demonstrate to you God failed all existence tests? and can only be demonstrated via mild delusion?

Unless I am wrong, perhaps, you can demonstrate God outside of Jungian space?

[bjs]

[Replying to post 5 by Willum]


Moderator Comment

This kind of petulant tone does not belong in debate. Make your argument. Do not accuse others of abandoning a thread in a "huff."


Please review the Rules.


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[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by Inigo Montoya]

A natural explanation of the early Christian movement (tracing how we get from no Jesus to a Jesus as described in the N.T.) that satisfied basic historical criteria. It would have to be plausible on its own merits (i.e., the assertion of the agnostic that alien interference is "more" plausible than miraculous intervention is not adequate) and demonstrate knowledge of the cultural context; it would have to have explanatory power and scope; and, most especially, it would have to resort very, very infrequently to ad hoc assumptions (e.g. "The Centurion failed to puncture the vital organs of Jesus").

[Willum]

[Replying to liamconnor]

You see here is where we disagree: I believe it would be satisfied by noticing that Jesus temporal guidance was about paying Caesar his taxes, and obeying Roman law.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to liamconnor]

You see here is where we disagree: I believe it would be satisfied by noticing that Jesus temporal guidance was about paying Caesar his taxes, and obeying Roman law.

No. It wouldn't. There is nothing contradictory about Jesus advising payment to Caesar and his rising from the dead.

Perhaps you could help everyone out and provide a link to a scholar or blog that expresses your position more clearly than you have?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 9 by liamconnor]

Well, when asked if the Jews should pay a tax of coins that had the graven images of two (false) gods on them, Jesus blasphemously responded,
"Render to the god Caesar, what is Caesar's, render to the god Jehovah,what is his."
And not very far from the temples dedicated to either god, either.