Name above all Names

[liamconnor]

In Phil 2 Paul ascribes to Jesus "the name that is above all names".

Some scholars see this as the tetragrammaton; YHWH.

Many object.

For those that object, what name is above the name YHWH?

(this is directed to those who hold the Bible as authoritative, at least to some degree)

[Monta]

[Replying to post 88 by 2timothy316]


"His Father. I agree it should clear all of this up and show who that Jesus and his Father, the Almighty Jehovah are not the same person. Nor are they equals. Even verse 11 of that same chapter says, "Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." Here again we have one giving glory to another and not giving glory to one's self. "

The Divine is higher than the human. I think had Jesus, rather impossible but, had he claimed to be Jehovah/the Father himself, it would have been the end of creation. Why? because the 'human nature' (which he put on through Mary) is corruptible and not Divine.

Our soul is receptacle of life from God,
Jesus' had the Divine soul, the very Life Itself, Father/Jehovah.
He came from the Father same as I came from the father;
his Father is Divine, mine is human.

It is through Jesus' humanity that we can approach the Divinity of God who otherwise is unapproachable. Therefore we pray 'in Jesus name'.

2timothy, I think tradition is more on your side than mine yet the difference is only in how we understand the scripture.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 88 by 2timothy316]


"His Father. I agree it should clear all of this up and show who that Jesus and his Father, the Almighty Jehovah are not the same person. Nor are they equals. Even verse 11 of that same chapter says, "Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." Here again we have one giving glory to another and not giving glory to one's self. "

The Divine is higher than the human. I think had Jesus, rather impossible but, had he claimed to be Jehovah/the Father himself, it would have been the end of creation. Why? because the 'human nature' (which he put on through Mary) is corruptible and not Divine.

Our soul is receptacle of life from God,
Jesus' had the Divine soul, the very Life Itself, Father/Jehovah.
He came from the Father same as I came from the father;
his Father is Divine, mine is human.

It is through Jesus' humanity that we can approach the Divinity of God who otherwise is unapproachable. Therefore we pray 'in Jesus name'.

2timothy, I think tradition is more on your side than mine yet the difference is only in how we understand the scripture.

You are saying that Jesus, as a human, would have been corrupted---because he was human? That was not inevitable. ANY person, angel or human, is able to turn against God. We all have free will. Because someone is human---particularly a PERFECT human---that doesn't make them inevitably corrupted somehow. Adam could have chosen to remain faithful, and he would still be here among us.

Anyway, I don't understand your point about Jesus not claiming that he was Jehovah.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 92 by onewithhim]

I think the point is , Jesus as a human, could have been corrupted. He chose not to be. Proving humans could keep the law if they tried hard enough. Look at the gospels. 2 individuals said they kept the law, entirely. Jesus did not dispute their claim. He asked for the next step, which the rich man was not ready to do at that time and walked away.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 92 by onewithhim]

I think the point is , Jesus as a human, could have been corrupted. He chose not to be. Proving humans could keep the law if they tried hard enough.

Wait, what? Billions upon billions have tried. Not a single one has accomplished what Jesus did....so explain why please.

[2timothy316]

2 individuals said they kept the law, entirely. Jesus did not dispute their claim. .

Really? Did those people die of old age? If they did that means they didn't.

[brianbbs67]

2 individuals said they kept the law, entirely. Jesus did not dispute their claim. .

Really? Did those people die of old age? If they did that means they didn't.

One was a rich man. Of whom Christ said, after he left, " it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle"

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 92 by onewithhim]

I think the point is , Jesus as a human, could have been corrupted. He chose not to be. Proving humans could keep the law if they tried hard enough.

Wait, what? Billions upon billions have tried. Not a single one has accomplished what Jesus did....so explain why please.

I think he's trying to say that even imperfect humans can CHOOSE to obey even though they are imperfect. They are not absolutely destined to disobey.

[2timothy316]

2 individuals said they kept the law, entirely. Jesus did not dispute their claim. .

Really? Did those people die of old age? If they did that means they didn't.

One was a rich man. Of whom Christ said, after he left, " it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle"

Right which means though he followed the law however he wouldn't follow the Christ where ever he went. Thus he walked away because he didn't want to give up his material possessions. Following the law code word for word doesn't equal perfection or eternal life. This is what the Jews failed to see. Following the code correctly is what Jesus did and what no man has ever been able to accomplish.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 92 by onewithhim]

I think the point is , Jesus as a human, could have been corrupted. He chose not to be. Proving humans could keep the law if they tried hard enough.

Wait, what? Billions upon billions have tried. Not a single one has accomplished what Jesus did....so explain why please.

I think he's trying to say that even imperfect humans can CHOOSE to obey even though they are imperfect. They are not absolutely destined to disobey.

Agreed. However, though we are not destined to choose to disobey, thanks to the sin we got from Adam we are 'wired' you might say to rebel. Our hearts betray us all the time. As Jesus said, 'the spirit is eager but the flesh is weak'.

Paul even called it a war within ourselves. "I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body." - Romans 7:21-23. Simply put, we make mistakes. Do things that sin against Jehovah that we might not even be aware of doing.

As long as we have Adam's curse on us it will always be a war. When a person says, "humans could keep the law if they tried hard enough" doesn't understand the state of the human condition. If a person was able to keep the law correctly then we wouldn't need Jesus, we would have already conquered sin on our own. The wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23) If anyone actually followed the spirit of law code perfectly that person would be perfect and never sin, thus live forever. Following the 'written code' to a tee does not make that person perfect. (2 Corinthians 3:6) Not a single human other than Jesus would be able to accomplish this. To say otherwise is to leave one's hubris unchecked.

Of the Law covenant given Israel it could be said, “The man that has done the righteousness of the Law will live by it,� for perfect adherence to and compliance with that Law could be accomplished only by a sinless man, as was the case with Christ Jesus. (Ro 10:5; Mt 5:17; Joh 8:46; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1Pe 2:22)

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 92 by onewithhim]

I think the point is , Jesus as a human, could have been corrupted. He chose not to be. Proving humans could keep the law if they tried hard enough.

Wait, what? Billions upon billions have tried. Not a single one has accomplished what Jesus did....so explain why please.

I think he's trying to say that even imperfect humans can CHOOSE to obey even though they are imperfect. They are not absolutely destined to disobey.

Agreed. However, though we are not destined to choose to disobey, thanks to the sin we got from Adam we are 'wired' you might say to rebel. Our hearts betray us all the time. As Jesus said, 'the spirit is eager but the flesh is weak'.

Paul even called it a war within ourselves. "I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body." - Romans 7:21-23. Simply put, we make mistakes. Do things that sin against Jehovah that we might not even be aware of doing.

As long as we have Adam's curse on us it will always be a war. When a person says, "humans could keep the law if they tried hard enough" doesn't understand the state of the human condition. If a person was able to keep the law correctly then we wouldn't need Jesus, we would have already conquered sin on our own. The wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23) If anyone actually followed the spirit of law code perfectly that person would be perfect and never sin, thus live forever. Following the 'written code' to a tee does not make that person perfect. (2 Corinthians 3:6) Not a single human other than Jesus would be able to accomplish this. To say otherwise is to leave one's hubris unchecked.

Of the Law covenant given Israel it could be said, “The man that has done the righteousness of the Law will live by it,� for perfect adherence to and compliance with that Law could be accomplished only by a sinless man, as was the case with Christ Jesus. (Ro 10:5; Mt 5:17; Joh 8:46; Heb 4:15; 7:26; 1Pe 2:22)

You missed my point. The Jews had legislated them selves into a box. They could not escape what they had added to God's law. Christ showed that It can be done. We just can't do it, for some reason. That implies a flaw. That is explained in Genisis. God made Adam in His image. Adam made children in his image. Farther from the source. The original Law, as given to Moses, can be complied with, but Peter released us. "whatever you bind on earth, will be bound in Heaven, whatever you loosen on earth, will be loosened in Heaven"

That was Christ's promise.