Was Moses insane?

[marco]

Moses chattered with God. He pulled a big rock down a hill and said: "God wrote on this." He said he had seen God's hindquarters because God flashed through the sky, showing his back quarters to the old man.

The reasonable reaction is to say: "Rubbish." If we read these reports in the present age should we deduce
(a) Moses was mad? (b) Moses was a liar? (c) Moses was favoured by God?

Any of these answers can be chosen, but what would influence our choice?

[Divine Insight]

The reasonable reaction is to say: "Rubbish." If we read these reports in the present age should we deduce
(a) Moses was mad? (b) Moses was a liar? (c) Moses was favoured by God?

Any of these answers can be chosen, but what would influence our choice?

I wouldn't choose any of those. My choice would be D:

(D) Moses was an entirely fictional character.

My guess it that the legend of "Moses" when something like this:

Stories were generated and told about this fictional person called "Moses". These stories were passed along from generation to generation via oral traditions. The story was no doubt embellished and added to over the years. It was never written down because during that period no one could read, much less write.

Eventually as writing and reading emerged these stories were finally written down, clearly by someone other than the character they were about.

Most of the stories most likely never happened, or they are extreme exaggerations inspired by actual secular events.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

First the size of the tablets is not indicated. The literal is the ten words. Using the most primitive of methods, that could be engraved on a relatively small tablet. Given modern understanding, as you stipulated in the OP, we know that a large amount of information can be engraved on a very small space.

Second, regarding the record of Moshe' seeing Adonai's back side, you have clearly made a Comey style judgement, indicating that no reasonable person would accept the account. You then ask what is to be made of this. Would you also like to know when I stopped beating my wife? The only significance of the passage that I can see is that the nature of Adonai is beyond our understanding. Whether this was a vision or not is anyone's guess. Moshe' might not even have known, because it could have been a vivid vision that even he could not differentiate. Why is this a thing for the skeptic. What would you consider the significant ramifications to be?

[ttruscott]

Moses chattered with God. He pulled a big rock down a hill and said: "God wrote on this." He said he had seen God's hindquarters because God flashed through the sky, showing his back quarters to the old man.

The reasonable reaction is to say: "Rubbish." If we read these reports in the present age should we deduce
(a) Moses was mad? (b) Moses was a liar? (c) Moses was favoured by God?

A big rock?? Really?? Brownie points in the current round of telling a story badly...

Any of these answers can be chosen, but what would influence our choice?

Only those favoured by GOD are influenced to come to the truth. John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

[marco]

First the size of the tablets is not indicated. The literal is the ten words. Using the most primitive of methods, that could be engraved on a relatively small tablet. Given modern understanding, as you stipulated in the OP, we know that a large amount of information can be engraved on a very small space.

I can accept that if God personally did the inscribing he would have managed miracles. I would wonder how the information that has reached us under the title decalogue could have been economically inscribed. It does seem rather absurd that the Almighty descends from heaven to some mountain to hand over rocks. Is heaven impoverished?

Second, regarding the record of Moshe' seeing Adonai's back side, you have clearly made a Comey style judgement, indicating that no reasonable person would accept the account. You then ask what is to be made of this. Would you also like to know when I stopped beating my wife? The only significance of the passage that I can see is that the nature of Adonai is beyond our understanding.

I agree you are hard-pressed to put up a defence of what is farcical and I am sorry to have so encumbered you. The idiocy is with the script writers. Presumably they were unaware of bathos.

Whether this was a vision or not is anyone's guess. Moshe' might not even have known, because it could have been a vivid vision that even he could not differentiate. Why is this a thing for the skeptic. What would you consider the significant ramifications to be?

I think the tale casts doubt on Moshe's authenticity, so ludicrous is it. The natural reaction to a report of this type is loud laughter. Rather than honouring the biblical deity, it reduces him to ridicule. I am amazed that people attempt to treat the account seriously.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

I would say (c)

Any of these answers can be chosen, but what would influence our choice?

My faith based on my personal relationship with God.

[marco]

I wouldn't choose any of those. My choice would be D:

(D) Moses was an entirely fictional character.

My guess it that the legend of "Moses" went something like this:

Stories were generated and told about this fictional person called "Moses". These stories were passed along from generation to generation via oral traditions. The story was no doubt embellished and added to over the years. It was never written down because during that period no one could read, much less write.

If as is claimed the Israelites were slaves to the Egyptians, which is dubious, they would have learned something. The Egyptians had an excellent system of laws which God might have borrowed. It is not clear where he got his writing implement from. It is amusing that he used a piece of stone. More impressive would have been a gold plate, made by an injured angel.

Most of the stories most likely never happened, or they are extreme exaggerations inspired by actual secular events.

I think most readers disregard a large portion of the OT. It therefore makes one wonder why we bother with the other bits. It seems reasonable to suppose Moses, like Yahweh and Adam, are fictional. In asking questions about the OT we must always assume WHAT IF.

[marco]

A big rock?? Really?? Brownie points in the current round of telling a story badly...

Thanks Ted. I thought Brownie points were awarded for telling a story well. God descended from the sky onto a mountain, picked up a rock and scribbled on it, then gave it to some some human specimen and vanished. It is hard not to smile.

Only those favoured by GOD are influenced to come to the truth. John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

I used to sing this as a boy when I too was favoured by God. Then reason intervened when I got down to examining the OT.

[marco]

My faith based on my personal relationship with God.

That is fair enough. We can argue about statements in a book but on the matter of a personal relationship there is no dispute. My own mother wins here every time. Go well.

[Divine Insight]

I think most readers disregard a large portion of the OT. It therefore makes one wonder why we bother with the other bits. It seems reasonable to suppose Moses, like Yahweh and Adam, are fictional. In asking questions about the OT we must always assume WHAT IF.

Let's not forget that only the first 5 books of the OT are attributed to Moses.

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

And those are often the books that contain the most offensive material that people would like to disregard.

Also realize that the complete Old Testament contains anywhere from 39 to 46 books depending on whether a person chooses to be a Protestant or Catholic.

So there are something like 34 to 41 books in the OT that weren't written by Moses.