Why would God allow a toothache?

[liamconnor]

My nephew (he is six) currently has a toothache and it keeps him up crying most of the night. I tell you, when I saw him the day it set in, it was quite heartbreaking.

Why would a good God allow this? Is a toothache inflicting a six year old not immediate grounds for dismissing a good God behind the universe?

I am most interested in the answer from atheists and agnostics.

[marco]

My nephew (he is six) currently has a toothache and it keeps him up crying most of the night. I tell you, when I saw him the day it set in, it was quite heartbreaking.

Why would a good God allow this? Is a toothache inflicting a six year old not immediate grounds for dismissing a good God behind the universe?

I am most interested in the answer from atheists and agnostics.

Matthew 7.9 tells us: "Or what man is there of you, who if his son ask bread, will give him a stone?" From this we deduce that when we ask for solace, solace is given. If a toothache is afflicting a child, the natural human reaction is to offer some kind of relief.

Lack of action by a deity does not indicate the deity is non existent. It simply puts a question to the idea that God is all good, kind, merciful and many other apples and oranges. The problem of evil has challenged theologians, comcerned to grant God goodness. The Biblical God is not one's model of generosity, kindness and love, so it is in keeping with his ancient image that he lets the innocent suffer. It frequently happens that when a child asks God for bread, he is given a stone, despite Matthew's optimism.

But a bad creator can exist; a flawed creator can exist; a dangerously unstable creator can exist. Man in his fear and hope has painted God in delicate pastel colours though I suppose the giant reaching out with his finger in Michelangelo's masterpiece is no Mister Nice.

[Monta]

My nephew (he is six) currently has a toothache and it keeps him up crying most of the night. I tell you, when I saw him the day it set in, it was quite heartbreaking.

Why would a good God allow this? Is a toothache inflicting a six year old not immediate grounds for dismissing a good God behind the universe?

I am most interested in the answer from atheists and agnostics.

I point to God? He's already created a lovely child for which parents did nothing except enjoy having sex - which he put into natural order of things.

I would ask his mother and if she did everything right, I'd see a Doctor for some tests whether deficient in calcium, magnesium etc... There could be other health problems lurking about.

[Divine Insight]

Why would a good God allow this? Is a toothache inflicting a six year old not immediate grounds for dismissing a good God behind the universe?

I am most interested in the answer from atheists and agnostics.

My first thought is that atheists and agnostics have no reason to believe that a God exists in the first place, therefore they have no need for any reasons to dismiss it.

In a secular universe toothaches are already "explained".

But yes, I see your point. For theists who would like to believe in a "Good God" this is problematic. There is no question about that.

In fact, why limit yourself to being concerned with a mere toothache? Why not address the really ugly problems of parents who's child is born grossly deformed? Or born with a horrible genetic disease? Etc.

Yes, as an agnostic I believe that it's quite easy to dismiss the idea of a "Good God" who supposedly loves and cares about humans. Or any other animals for that matter. Nature if extremely cruel to be sure. For secularists this isn't a problem in terms of needing an explanation. But for those who believing in a supposedly loving "Good God" it most certainly is a problem.

You may even ask why I even bother being agnostic when a secular world appears to explain everything pretty well. Well, I'm certainly not agnostic with respect to something like the Biblical God. I'm completely convinced that the Biblical God cannot be true as described in the Bible. However, I remain agnostic in terms of other possible types of a "God".

For example, in the pantheistic view of the world all that exists is "God", therefore everyone, including the 6-year-old child you refer to in the OP is actually just God incarnated as a human. Therefore God is only suffering as much as God is willing to suffer, and everything happens only to God. There are no independent "human souls".

I'll grant you that this type of theology is difficult to embrace or fully understand. But if God is all that exists, then God is doing all of this stuff to himself and he's willing to experience this kind of pain and suffering, for whatever reason.

I'm not convinced of pantheism, but I remain agnostic to the possibility. If God is all that exists, then only God can suffer and there are no such things as "Human Souls".

But keep in mind that if this is reality, then it also makes no sense to have souls being punished for their behavior. And it especially makes no sense to have an eternal hell where evil souls are cast for eternity. It also would make no sense for this God to have his only begotten Son crucified by humans to offer human souls salvation.

So if Pantheism is true, nothing in the Bible makes any sense at all. The Bible is totally dependent on humans being totally separate entities from God. Ironically this is actually an extreme theological problem as well, but that's a whole other story.

In the meantime I have no need to "dismiss" a God that I don't believe exists in the first place. What kind of a "Good God" would cast people into everlasting punishment anyway? The Biblical theology shoots itself in the foot on just about every page of the entire canon.

Just reading the Bible I can easily dismiss the Biblical God by Genesis chapter 3. No need to read any further.

[Willum]

Well, I think, for once, you and I can arrive at a mutual conclusion.

I am sure you will agree that God is much farther above us, than we are above ants, in every way you can describe.
Right?

So to answer your question, why do you allow ants in your yard to have antenna rot?
You could treat their nest.
Give them a better diet.
and so on.

I propose the reason God allows toothaches, is the same reason you allow antenna rot.

Their is just NOTHING we could possible do to attract his interest.

[Inigo Montoya]

Didn't all the misery and heartache and pain and suffering we weren't intended for come as a result of some fruit being eaten from a special tree in an enchanted garden? I'm sorry for your nephew's toofer, but this is on Eve. Leave God out of it.

[marco]

I propose the reason God allows toothaches, is the same reason you allow antenna rot.

There is just NOTHING we could possibly do to attract his interest.

We could eat an apple or laugh at a prophet. Our relation to ants, or birds, is different from our relation with God. God made us; we didn't make ants. So it would seem the toymaker has some responsibility for his artefacts. It turns out that we are probably more caring for the birds in our garden than God is for his creatures. After all, it was God who taught the magpie to kill the robin, the tiger to slaughter the deer. Apparently, according to the Bible, he keeps a note of falling sparrows. If we accept the idea that God is generally bad, we can solve the problem of evil. As one of the popes said: Deus vult - God wills it.

Or we can see that we are things of chance: some of us win the lottery and some of us fall under a train.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 7 by marco]

Interesting, if not telling points, my sage.
Let me propose the alternative possibility that we were created in a means similar to the Ridley Scott "Prometheus" sequel.

This concept change would necessarily change your opinion, as a matter of context, right?

Although an argument can be made that I am not reading enough in to the OP: I am abrogating the assumption that God is all-loving.

Of course, then I'd have little to say, as I would be completely dazzled by paradox.

[ttruscott]

If we accept the idea that God is generally bad, we can solve the problem of evil. As one of the popes said: Deus vult - God wills it.

Or we can see that we are things of chance: some of us win the lottery and some of us fall under a train.

Anything but accept that we are sinners and all the suffering, ever bit of it, is in response to our choice to be evil... Anything rather than accept that we are guilty for the physical manifestation of evil and the suffering it causes, not GOD... and when this is done, evil and suffering will be eradicated from HIS reality.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 3 by Monta]

I haven't the least clue how your response has anything to do with the the OP. Perhaps it was late when you wrote it?