Is the day of the paid “shepherd� coming to an end? Ez3

[showme]

Is the day of the paid “shepherd� coming to an end? (Ezekiel 34:10-13)

Is the day of the paid “shepherd� , those living off the fat of the sheep, coming to an end? ( Ezekiel 34:10) Is it true that the “shepherds with no understanding� (Isaiah 56:11), will actually be thrown out on their ears. Is there no justice? How will they survive? They probably have no skills, and McDonalds probably doesn’t need any more help. While it looks bad for the “shepherds� it doesn’t look much better for the lost sheep (Jeremiah 16:18). Will there only be one leader? (Matthew 23:10) Will Paul’s appointed leaders be discarded? Heaven forbid, what will happen to all those steepled buildings?

Ezekiel 34:10 Thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will demand My sheep from them and make them cease from feeding sheep. So the shepherds will not feed themselves anymore, but I will deliver My flock from their mouth, so that they will not be food for them.�’�
11: For thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out.(Jeremiah 16:16-18)
12: “As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his scattered sheep, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day.(Ezekiel 36:22-24)
13“I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land. (Ezekiel 37:15-28)

Jeremiah 16: 16“Behold, I am going to send for many fishermen,� declares the LORD, “and they will fish for them; and afterwards I will send for many hunters, and they will hunt them from every mountain and every hill and from the clefts of the rocks.
17“For My eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from My face, nor is their iniquity concealed from My eyes.
18“I will first doubly repay their iniquity and their sin, because they have polluted My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable idols and with their abominations.�

[bjs]

Are you aware that God command that the shepherds described in Ezekiel 34 paid (Numbers 18:21)?

The problem was not that they were paid – God ordered that they be paid – but that they were corrupt.

[showme]

Are you aware that God command that the shepherds described in Ezekiel 34 paid (Numbers 18:21)?

The problem was not that they were paid – God ordered that they be paid – but that they were corrupt.

God never order the "shepherds who have no understanding" to be paid, who already "turned to their own way, each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" (Isaiah 56:11). You are confusing the false prophet Paul with God. On the other hand, Ez 34 is timed with regards to Ez 34:13-17, when "I will judge between one sheep and another", and between "the rams and the male goats", which is the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31), which remains behind the door (Matthew 24:23). This refers to when the "house" will "fall" (Matthew 7:27), and "in that day" when Peter and his heir, the pope, will also fall (Isaiah 22:15-25). This was all set up when Yeshua was fulfilling Zechariah 11:17, by appointing Peter as the "worthless shepherd", who would not feed, care, or tend the sheep. Case in point, the heir of Peter, the pope and his cronies living the high life while his sheep in South America, fend of pedophile priest, and live in shanties.

Number 18:21 is for Levites. Are you an ox or a Levite? The Levites don't become purified until the "day of the Lord". (Isaiah 66:20-21) & (Malachi 3:3-4) What other ordinance of God do you keep? I though Paul taught you that you were "released from the Law" (Romans 7:6). Is that mean released from everything but a paycheck? You need to start reassessing your position.

…20"Then they shall bring all your brethren from all the nations as a grain offering to the LORD, on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "just as the sons of Israel bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD. 21"I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites," says the LORD. 22"For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me," declares the LORD, "So your offspring and your name will endure.…

Malachi: 3“He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness. 4“Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years.

[showme]

[Replying to post 3 by showme]

[bjs]

God never order the "shepherds who have no understanding" to be paid, who already "turned to their own way, each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" (Isaiah 56:11). You are confusing the false prophet Paul with God.

Unless you are suggesting that Paul wrote the book of Numbers, I don’t think that I was making any reference to Paul.

Number 18:21 is for Levites. Are you an ox or a Levite?

Numbers 18:21 is for Levites. The “shepherds� mentioned in Ezekiel were Levites. If you are saying that they should not have been paid at all then you are going against the command of God.

[showme]

God never order the "shepherds who have no understanding" to be paid, who already "turned to their own way, each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" (Isaiah 56:11). You are confusing the false prophet Paul with God.

Unless you are suggesting that Paul wrote the book of Numbers, I don’t think that I was making any reference to Paul.

Number 18:21 is for Levites. Are you an ox or a Levite?

Numbers 18:21 is for Levites. The “shepherds� mentioned in Ezekiel were Levites. If you are saying that they should not have been paid at all then you are going against the command of God.

The false prophet Paul wrote 1 Timothy 5:18, which pushed the idea of him and his appointed leaders and pastors being paid. I had assumed by my asking if you were an ox, that you were familiar with your teacher's teachings. Sorry, I should have been more explicit, and should not have assumed you knew Paul’s teachings. I would suggest that if you want wages, become a servant (wage earner), as Paul paraphrased from (Dt 24:15), or a Levite, and keeper of the ordinances of God. (Ez 37:24)

The shepherds in Ezekiel 34, were the shepherds that were going to be replaced at the “day of the LORD� when the “male goats� will be judged (Ezekiel 34:17), and the sheep will “have one shepherd. My servant David,… and I will make a covenant of peace with them,….. and they will no longer be a prey to the nations� . That has yet to happen, and remains behind the door. The judgment for the male goats remains behind the door as well. I was not saying that the Levites should not be paid when they are reinstated per Malachi 3:3-4 in the day of the LORD, but referring to the “shepherds who have been feeding themselves�… taking from the “slaughter“ of the “fat sheep�…. “without feeding the flock� (Ezekiel 34:3). It is these “male goats�, which are looking forward to a more harsh judgment (Ez 9:1-6)

New American Standard Bible 1 Timothy 5:18
For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

[bjs]

The false prophet Paul wrote 1 Timothy 5:18, which pushed the idea of him and his appointed leaders and pastors being paid. I had assumed by my asking if you were an ox, that you were familiar with your teacher's teachings. Sorry, I should have been more explicit, and should not have assumed you knew Paul’s teachings. I would suggest that if you want wages, become a servant (wage earner), as Paul paraphrased from (Dt 24:15), or a Levite, and keeper of the ordinances of God. (Ez 37:24)

The shepherds in Ezekiel 34, were the shepherds that were going to be replaced at the “day of the LORD� when the “male goats� will be judged (Ezekiel 34:17), and the sheep will “have one shepherd. My servant David,… and I will make a covenant of peace with them,….. and they will no longer be a prey to the nations� . That has yet to happen, and remains behind the door. The judgment for the male goats remains behind the door as well. I was not saying that the Levites should not be paid when they are reinstated per Malachi 3:3-4 in the day of the LORD, but referring to the “shepherds who have been feeding themselves�… taking from the “slaughter“ of the “fat sheep�…. “without feeding the flock� (Ezekiel 34:3). It is these “male goats�, which are looking forward to a more harsh judgment (Ez 9:1-6)

New American Standard Bible 1 Timothy 5:18
For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

I am aware of what is written in First Timothy, but since I have not brought up any of Paul’s letters I don’t know why my view of Paul has any importance to this topic.

You write, “I was not saying that the Levites should not be paid…� The “shepherds� referred to in Ezekiel 34 were Levites. In one breath you condemn them for accepting payment, and in the next breath you say that should have been paid. Which is it?

[showme]

The false prophet Paul wrote 1 Timothy 5:18, which pushed the idea of him and his appointed leaders and pastors being paid. I had assumed by my asking if you were an ox, that you were familiar with your teacher's teachings. Sorry, I should have been more explicit, and should not have assumed you knew Paul’s teachings. I would suggest that if you want wages, become a servant (wage earner), as Paul paraphrased from (Dt 24:15), or a Levite, and keeper of the ordinances of God. (Ez 37:24)

The shepherds in Ezekiel 34, were the shepherds that were going to be replaced at the “day of the LORD� when the “male goats� will be judged (Ezekiel 34:17), and the sheep will “have one shepherd. My servant David,… and I will make a covenant of peace with them,….. and they will no longer be a prey to the nations� . That has yet to happen, and remains behind the door. The judgment for the male goats remains behind the door as well. I was not saying that the Levites should not be paid when they are reinstated per Malachi 3:3-4 in the day of the LORD, but referring to the “shepherds who have been feeding themselves�… taking from the “slaughter“ of the “fat sheep�…. “without feeding the flock� (Ezekiel 34:3). It is these “male goats�, which are looking forward to a more harsh judgment (Ez 9:1-6)

New American Standard Bible 1 Timothy 5:18
For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

I am aware of what is written in First Timothy, but since I have not brought up any of Paul’s letters I don’t know why my view of Paul has any importance to this topic.

You write, “I was not saying that the Levites should not be paid…� The “shepherds� referred to in Ezekiel 34 were Levites. In one breath you condemn them for accepting payment, and in the next breath you say that should have been paid. Which is it?

What matters is that Yeshua said there was only one leader and one teacher (Matthew 23:8-10). It is your false prophet Paul who set up the multitude of teachers, leaders, and pastors, who according to him, are to be paid as the ox is not muzzled, and the laborer is to be paid. The pastors do not labor, and what is received freely, is to be given freely. (Matthew 10:8-10) And Ezekiel 34 is not about Levites, no matter how twisted is your mind, for the Levites are purified at the “day of the LORD� (Malachi 3:3-4), and the “Shepherds� of Ezekiel 34 are terminated at that time (Ezekiel 34:23). You neither give tithes to the Levites, a tribe of Israel, nor do you heal the “diseased� (Ezekiel 34:4). That is why the “shepherds� are told, “I am against the Shepherds…. And make them cease from feeding sheep…. I shall deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be food for them�. The coming “judgment� is for the “male goats� (Ezekiel 34:17), which would be those “shepherds�. Apparently, according to Matthew 25:32, the goats didn’t feed the sheep (Matthew 25:35). You might want to start looking for a rock to hide under (Revelation 6:12-16).

Matthew 10:8-10
“Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay

Matthew 25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;

[bjs]

And Ezekiel 34 is not about Levites,

This response seems more than a little ad hoc.* We know that the Levites were still functioning as shepherds in Israel in days of Ezekiel. Ezekiel mentions the Levites specifically and connects them with the immorality of the “shepherds� in chapter 44.

Other than saving your hypothesis, what reason is there to suggest that Ezekiel 34 was not about the Levites?

If Ezekiel was referring to the Levites, then I would refer you back to post 6.



*An ad hoc hypothesis is a hypothesis added to a theory in order to save it from being falsified.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hoc_hypothesis
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... Hoc-Rescue

[showme]

[Replying to post 8 by bjs]