God has a god.

[Checkpoint]

Scriptures tell us that God the Father is the God of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Anyone who has a god is not, by definition, God.

Therefore, Jesus Christ is not the one true God.

God the Father has no god.

He is therefore, by definition, God Himself, the only true God.

What say you?

Relevant scriptures

Psalm 45:7;Hebrews 1:9

You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.

John 17:3

Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Mark 15:34

And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema
sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

John 20:17

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

2 Corinthians 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,

Ephesians 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 1:3

We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

1 Peter 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy, He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 311 by onewithhim]

There are some similarities between us. I went to a Kingdom Hall for a few months or so. It's not my intent to pick anyone's religion apart. Over my lifetime, I've visited many churches and faiths... and doctrines... philosophies.

My current beliefs are able to answer all of life's questions and makes complete sense of the Bible. Prior to that, nothing else ever could.

I heard the truth... and I've grabbed hold of it. I know it is because I've seen how certain God's word is. No one else could ever show me that. Maybe it comes of all these years in the Show-me state.

Soj

It's good to find people like you who think. Would you, please, tell me what you have come to know as the truth?

[PinSeeker]

It's good to find people like you who think.

Disingenuous of you at the very best, onewithhim. For my part, I would never say or imply that you don't think. But you do think very wrongly, at least on the subjects we have discussed.

Good day, and grace and peace to you in the matchless name of the Lord Jesus Christ..

[onewithhim]

It's good to find people like you who think.

Disingenuous of you at the very best, onewithhim. For my part, I would never say or imply that you don't think. But you do think very wrongly, at least on the subjects we have discussed.

Good day, and grace and peace to you in the matchless name of the Lord Jesus Christ..

Please accept my apology. I was not thinking of you when I said that. I run into so many people who don't even want to think outside of their box, to question their clergyman or rock their family's boat.

I have given many thoughtful comments and asked you to weigh in on the subject and often you don't do that. If I'm wrong, I will retract my statement, but I think I've asked you to explain some things which just got swept under the carpet....but perhaps it was someone else. Anyway, how have I thought "very wrongly" about what we have discussed?

The name of Jesus is certainly matchless among men and angels. His Father's name is above ALL, however, and I think Jehovah should be recognized.


"They will have to know my name is Jehovah." (Jeremiah 16:21, Young's Literal Translation)



(getting old)

[PinSeeker]

Please accept my apology. I was not thinking of you when I said that.

Apology accepted. I think you were thinking of me, though; it seems rather obvious.

I have given many thoughtful comments and asked you to weigh in on the subject and often you don't do that. If I'm wrong, I will retract my statement, but I think I've asked you to explain some things which just got swept under the carpet....but perhaps it was someone else.

I don't "sweep anything under the carpet." There just comes a point that retreading the same ground(s) over and over again in the hope that a different answer will be obtained becomes a waste of time. But, patience is part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit, so I would continue in it; you may have posed something(s) that I missed. If so, pose again if you like.

Anyway, how have I thought "very wrongly" about what we have discussed?

I believe I've been very clear in this thread and others on that question. In my memory, there has not been much at all that we have discussed that we haven't disagreed on. But that's the nature of this forum; it is a debate forum, after all. It there weren't disagreement, there would be no discussion to be had on this site, right?

The name of Jesus is certainly matchless among men and angels. His Father's name is above ALL...[/quote]
Ah we're back to the misunderstanding among JWs regarding Philippians 2, particulary -- in this case -- verses 9 through 11:

• "...God highly exalted (Jesus), and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." [Philippians 2:9-11]

This should not be interpreted to mean that at one time in eternity past Jesus did not possess the name which is above every name (such an interpretation would be a mangling of the Holy Spirit's message through Paul here and elsewhere), but only -- in the context of the passage -- the name above all names was bestowed on Him in His form (morphe', nature) as carnal man (which He affirmed in John 8:58), a period of approximately 33 years (from His conception to His death on the cross).

...however, and I think Jehovah should be recognized.

As do I. This is done also in recognizing and acknowledging Jesus for Who He is,

Grace and peace to you.

[onewithhim]

Please accept my apology. I was not thinking of you when I said that.

Apology accepted. I think you were thinking of me, though; it seems rather obvious.

I have given many thoughtful comments and asked you to weigh in on the subject and often you don't do that. If I'm wrong, I will retract my statement, but I think I've asked you to explain some things which just got swept under the carpet....but perhaps it was someone else.

I don't "sweep anything under the carpet." There just comes a point that retreading the same ground(s) over and over again in the hope that a different answer will be obtained becomes a waste of time. But, patience is part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit, so I would continue in it; you may have posed something(s) that I missed. If so, pose again if you like.

Anyway, how have I thought "very wrongly" about what we have discussed?

I believe I've been very clear in this thread and others on that question. In my memory, there has not been much at all that we have discussed that we haven't disagreed on. But that's the nature of this forum; it is a debate forum, after all. It there weren't disagreement, there would be no discussion to be had on this site, right?

The name of Jesus is certainly matchless among men and angels. His Father's name is above ALL...

Ah we're back to the misunderstanding among JWs regarding Philippians 2, particulary -- in this case -- verses 9 through 11:

• "...God highly exalted (Jesus), and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." [Philippians 2:9-11]

This should not be interpreted to mean that at one time in eternity past Jesus did not possess the name which is above every name (such an interpretation would be a mangling of the Holy Spirit's message through Paul here and elsewhere), but only -- in the context of the passage -- the name above all names was bestowed on Him in His form (morphe', nature) as carnal man (which He affirmed in John 8:58), a period of approximately 33 years (from His conception to His death on the cross).

...however, and I think Jehovah should be recognized.

As do I. This is done also in recognizing and acknowledging Jesus for Who He is,

Grace and peace to you.[/quote]



ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS


1) Why was it "obvious" that I meant that comment for you? I told you why I said it. I go from door-to-door in the ministry and speak to dozens of people, and probably the majority of them don't care to even listen. I think I posted my opinion of why they don't want to.

2) True, it is a debate site. I thought, that since you were strong in your statement that I was thinking "very wrongly," that you had one or two things in particular in mind.

3) I wouldn't ever say that Jesus' name was not higher than all men and angels' before he died and went back to heaven. I don't understand your point.

4) I agree that we have to recognize Jesus for who he is. The Father said that we must accept His Son and what he did for mankind. If we don't, we answer to Him, Jehovah. As the Apostle John said:


"These things have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name." (John 20:31)

What do we have to believe? That Jesus is the Son of God. Not God.


.

[PinSeeker]

3I wouldn't ever say that Jesus' name was not higher than all men and angels' before he died and went back to heaven. I don't understand your point.

Sorry; in my previous response, I didn't set that particular quote of yours apart. So maybe what was confusing you was not remembering who said what in our discussion. You were the one who said in the previous post:

• "The name of Jesus is certainly matchless among men and angels. His Father's name is above ALL..."

And my response to that was:

• "Ah we're back to the misunderstanding among JWs regarding Philippians 2, particulary -- in this case -- verses 9 through 11:
  
  • '...God highly exalted (Jesus), and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.' [Philippians 2:9-11]
  
  This should not be interpreted to mean that at one time in eternity past Jesus did not possess the name which is above every name (such an interpretation would be a mangling of the Holy Spirit's message through Paul here and elsewhere), but only -- in the context of the passage -- the name above all names was bestowed on Him in His form (morphe', nature) as carnal man (which He affirmed in John 8:58), a period of approximately 33 years (from His conception to His death on the cross).

I agree that we have to recognize Jesus for who he is.

I know you do. But you don't. Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole don't. That's the point.

What do we have to believe? That Jesus is the Son of God.

Agreed. But He proceeds from the Father (as does the Holy Spiirt), which necessarily means He is of one substance with the Father but a distinct Person. Therefore, He is God, as He Himself says in various ways, most notably by ascribing to Himself the Name above all names.

Not God.

Not God the Father, but God the Son. The second Person of the Trinity. See, this is what I mean about continuing around and around, coming back to the same conclusion.

Grace and peace to you.

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 320 by onewithhim]

Would you, please, tell me what you have come to know as the truth?

Well, I've discussed a lot of my beliefs. Let me ask you, what do you believe happens to a person when they die? I seem to recall that I was taught that, after the resurrection, you live on Earth, as a human being into eternity, but always mortal, with the possibility of being destroyed, with the exception of those 144,000. It was a really, really long time ago, so I might have that wrong.

Soj

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 325 by PinSeeker]

OK. I see that we will basically do nothing more than circle around and around. I think we'd best agree to disagree.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 320 by onewithhim]

Would you, please, tell me what you have come to know as the truth?

Well, I've discussed a lot of my beliefs. Let me ask you, what do you believe happens to a person when they die? I seem to recall that I was taught that, after the resurrection, you live on Earth, as a human being into eternity, but always mortal, with the possibility of being destroyed, with the exception of those 144,000. It was a really, really long time ago, so I might have that wrong.

Soj

You have a fine mind. You picked up all of what you heard about this. Kudos to you. It is true, what you remember.

It is clear to me now, after studiously scrutinizing the Scriptures, that when the spirit---the breath of life---leaves the body, the body is dead and nothing lives on. To say that we "really will not die" is to accept Satan's lie from the beginning. I believe that he is behind all the spirit-living-on stuff. Again, the "spirit" that leaves the body is simply God's Force that keeps a person alive, like a current of electricity keeps a light bulb glowing.

Yes, mankind who is resurrected will always be mortal, like Adam and Eve were. It's no biggie, though, because we don't have to choose to disobey God. As long as we obey Him, we will live. Adam knew that, but he chose to rebel anyway.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 328 by onewithhim]

Yes, mankind who is resurrected will always be mortal, like Adam and Eve were. It's no biggie, though, because we don't have to choose to disobey God. As long as we obey Him, we will live. Adam knew that, but he chose to rebel anyway.

This is part of "the truth" JWs constantly claim to possess?

It is directly contradicting 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 3.