Why Does God Allow Suffering?

[Pipiripi]

This is the BIG question on many people minds today, and it is one that keeps many in the world for accepting Christ Jesus for their saviour. I came across to some debate and I have read different answered for a person here, who are so sad that God allows sin. This is for you my friend.

How did sin and suffering begin.
Although no-one can give an definitive reason as to why sin could arise in perfect universe. We can give an explanation as to HOW and WHERE it begin. We don't know the why,but we know the how. One thing that we can confirm, from what the Bible says, is that sin did NOT come from God. So let's look a little farther.

Ezekiel 28:13-15. (read it) These verses is talking about LUCIFER, the most exalted angel in the heavenly kingdom. And if you can see, when God create him, he was a perfect being. So the question is, If God didn't created sin and evil, the how did Lucifer end up being evil? Because of His own FREE WILL CHOICE to go against God heavenly government. God didn't create a bunch of robot to serve Him.

I hope till here is enough for us to see that, because of our own choice we will end up in heaven or Hell.

[Pipiripi]

The question of suffering is surely the most challenging issue for anyone to address, especially for those like me who believe that God exists. I don't intend to offer any glib answers, but I would like to make a few comments to those who assert that secularism "clearly" has a more rational view on this issue. I have not found this to be the case.

There is a recent and viral meme used to convey passionately the problem of God allowing suffering. Attributed first to David Attenborough and made popular by atheist Stephen Fry, the example is of a parasitic worm often found in the eye of African children, causing them to go blind. The Wikipedia article about David Attenborough includes this quote:

"[When I am asked whether my observation of the natural world has given me faith in a creator,] my response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And , 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'."

At first glance these words seem to be a slam dunk argument against God. Why indeed would God allow such suffering and pain? But if we dig deeper, we may find that things are not so cut and dried. If I was able to have a respectful conversation with Attenborough, I would want to say something like this:

David, thanks for your honest comments, and I think that you are at least half right. You're right that there is evil as well as good in creation. You're right that a worm causing a young African child to go blind is a horrible thing. And you're absolutely right to challenge Christians to construct a world view that deals with the whole of reality. We must not be selective with the facts that appear to support our case. Reading between the lines, I think that you are pushing back against that kind of partial argument, and we Christians should too.

But David, I think you are also wrong in part. I would challenge you to consider whether your world view is equally partial, and conveniently ignores uncomfortable facts. For instance, you and I agree that the worm story is wrong, but I don't see how you can say *why* it's wrong given your world view. If materialism is the whole story, then why do we have this deep seated conviction that certain facts should be different? If everything is natural, whence this sense that some things are unnatural? And it seems to that this issue should be particularly stark for a world renowned naturalist such as you, David, because your whole career has focussed on the comprehensive reality of biological evolution. The core of evolutionary processes is that they are morally neutral, if not good. The strongest stag is determined by violent fighting, then the winner mates with all the females. It may thus preserve the best DNA lines; but why is it not rape? The mother bird lays 2 eggs but can only feed one. She deliberately chooses to feed the stronger chick and let the other die. Why is this not child neglect? The parasites that in humans raise a moral question also exist in many other species in nature, and in all those cases we call them an evolutionary success story. So why is there a deep moral dimension to the human species, alone among every single species on planet earth?

On the other hand, Christianity does have a coherent answer. No matter how we read the details of Genesis 1-3 - my personal view is that these chapters are far more literary than historical, but of course there are other opinions - the story tells us that there is both good and evil in the world, and it places humanity in a unique and special place in that creation. We reflect the image of God, and even in our brokenness and rebellion we know it. The Christian story rings true.

Thanks for your reaction. If someone believe in God must show which God is their God. There many gods, maybe my God is not your God. I can debate about my God. All I wrote is about the God from the Bible. As long I follow the God of the Bible, I used only what He teaches and say. If I have to go think by myself and believed what I'm thinking and never has read a Bible. And if I have read it, and consumed everything is literal, I will just get hate. God is believed without see. And many people never has heard this word. My friend we are living in Matthew 24. And I am ready for Revelation 14:6-13.

[Walterbl]

1. Any suffering you experience in this temporary, imperfect earth will pale in comparison to the bliss of paradise.

2. Suffering is necessary for spiritual growth.

[ttruscott]

2. Suffering is necessary for spiritual growth.

I completely disagree. Did Michael and Gabriel have to suffer to rise to their position as Archangels? I sincerely doubt it. Did the holy angels have to suffer to become holy? Luke 9:26 “For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, with the holy angels.� No way...

Did they also have to suffer to become elect: 1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels. Not at all!


I Champion:

1. GOD’s holiness:
- GOD did not NEED evil nor the suffering evil causes for HIS plan for the heavenly marriage to succeed and did not create evil for any reason.
- All evil is creature-created by their / our free will.
- Once sin and suffering were created AGAINST HIS will by our will, HE does use it to painfully chastise us to we are trained in righteousness but HE did not NEED evil to create heaven.

2. Our Free will:
- All spirits created in the image of GOD were created innocent with the ability and opportunity to make true free will decisions to become eternally perfectly righteous or eternally perfectly evil.

[Walterbl]

I completely disagree. Did Michael and Gabriel have to suffer to rise to their position as Archangels?

Unlike humans, angels were created spiritually mature, so they don't need suffering for spiritual growth.

Just saying that from my personal experience, and those of others, people turn to God in times of personal crisis.

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 33 by Walterbl]

Agreed, humans tend to be drawn in by religion in times of extreme emotional vulnerability, when manipulative rhetoric works most well.

[ttruscott]

I completely disagree. Did Michael and Gabriel have to suffer to rise to their position as Archangels?

Unlike humans, angels were created spiritually mature, so they don't need suffering for spiritual growth.

How do you know how they were created? Got a verse?

How do you know we, ie humans, were not at the creation of the physical universe and sang HIS praises, Job 38:7?

How do you know we were not ALL created upright [Ecclesiastes 7:29 This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes."] but then fell by our own free will and our immaturity on earth, physically and spiritually, is a result of sin, not of a recent creation on earth?

Anyway, I was not against sinners needing suffering to grow spiritually so much as contending that GOD needs no one to suffer to grow spiritually but only to learn to stop sinning.

[Dimmesdale]

1. Any suffering you experience in this temporary, imperfect earth will pale in comparison to the bliss of paradise.

2. Suffering is necessary for spiritual growth.

Soul-making. Indeed I think it is THE indispensable process which is praiseworthy for it's own sake and which results in a permanent alteration to the one who suffers - a pointer to the ultimate meaning of life.

I don't think it can be circumnavigated, and the meaning behind it to be preserved thereby. But that's just me.