Reading through some of Guru's thread I wanted to ask but, so as not to hijack their thread I started a new one as I'm curious about predestination for those that believe in it:
Is predestination 100% or simply the end result?
Meaning, is it only predestination when it comes to the end of your life (or whatever point you wish to choose for sake of discussion), or is every single iota of life also predestined (you were predestined to choose that blueberry muffin and not this one)?
Also, if we're predestined (for hell, for example) is that truly fair to the individuals that go to hell?
Predestination Questions
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Post #2
I would say no to predestination. God may know what we will, ultimately choose, but doesn't force us to do that. He is good. I think people use predestination as a crutch to relieve them of guilt(in their minds).
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Post #3
[Replying to post 2 by brianbbs67]
Interesting - thanks for the input.
Couldn't all religious ideals be seen as a crutch to some degree?
Interesting - thanks for the input.
Couldn't all religious ideals be seen as a crutch to some degree?
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Post #4
Only if they excuse you from your actions.imhereforyou wrote: [Replying to post 2 by brianbbs67]
Interesting - thanks for the input.
Couldn't all religious ideals be seen as a crutch to some degree?
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Re: Predestination Questions
Post #5imhereforyou wrote:Is predestination 100% or simply the end result?
I just answered this yesterday but I don't see it so it must have been elsewhere...
PCE Christianity contends that every person created in GOD's image chose their own FATE (their end result) by their free will but to ensure the most perfect redemption of HIS elect (who chose to end in of heaven) yet also chose to be sinful, GOD has predetermined all LIVES here on earth in conformity to their choices... This also insures that no one suffers any more than their sins deserve while most get some rain and sun (blessings) in their lives.
Predestination is merely a prophecy describing the inevitable fulfillment of HIS promise of election (chosen to end in heaven) to those to be saved from any and all sin. Our free will causes our end fate; HIS predestination of our lives is the result of our choice, corroborating and fulfilling our choice of fates, not the cause of our fate.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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Post #6
Aren't many religions set up for that?brianbbs67 wrote:Only if they excuse you from your actions.imhereforyou wrote: [Replying to post 2 by brianbbs67]
Interesting - thanks for the input.
Couldn't all religious ideals be seen as a crutch to some degree?
Excuse, forgiveness, etc?
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Re: Predestination Questions
Post #7[Replying to post 5 by ttruscott]
Apologies if I missed it, but where (at what time) do people make this decision?
Is it during their lives or before?
Apologies if I missed it, but where (at what time) do people make this decision?
Is it during their lives or before?
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Re: Predestination Questions
Post #8Well of course it must have be when we were alive but our human lives are not the beginning of our 'life.'imhereforyou wrote: [Replying to post 5 by ttruscott]
Apologies if I missed it, but where (at what time) do people make this decision?
Is it during their lives or before?
Our creation was before the creation of the physical universe which we saw, Job 38:7 and sang HIS praises which gave no one any more excuse for not worshipping HIM as GOD, Rom 1:20.
This heterodox Christian theology is often referred to as Pre-Conception Existence theology. I myself reject the more ordinary appellation of pre-existence as implying we were living before we were living, ie, created.
All those who chose to sin against GOD during this time were sent to Earth as a prison for them...Revelation 12: 7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Only sinners are born on earth and Matt 13:36-39 is most instructive.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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Re: Predestination Questions
Post #9ttruscott wrote:Well of course it must have be when we were alive but our human lives are not the beginning of our 'life.'imhereforyou wrote: [Replying to post 5 by ttruscott]
Apologies if I missed it, but where (at what time) do people make this decision?
Is it during their lives or before?
Our creation was before the creation of the physical universe which we saw, Job 38:7 and sang HIS praises which gave no one any more excuse for not worshipping HIM as GOD, Rom 1:20.
This heterodox Christian theology is often referred to as Pre-Conception Existence theology. I myself reject the more ordinary appellation of pre-existence as implying we were living before we were living, ie, created.
All those who chose to sin against GOD during this time were sent to Earth as a prison for them...Revelation 12: 7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Only sinners are born on earth and Matt 13:36-39 is most instructive.
It is safe to understand that, IYO, our lives and our life have different time frames?Well of course it must have be when we were alive but our human lives are not the beginning of our 'life.'
Post #10
To show you Gods word on this;brianbbs67 wrote: I would say no to predestination. God may know what we will, ultimately choose, but doesn't force us to do that. He is good. I think people use predestination as a crutch to relieve them of guilt(in their minds).
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[/center]Isa 46:10 At the beginning I announce the end, proclaim in advance things not yet done; and I say that my plan will hold, I will do everything I please to do.