No, it [keeping one's sexual preference or orientation] DOES NOT necessarily indicate that a person is a prisoner of "sin"; that is just some BS that you wish to conveniently place upon another, to rationalize what you believe is "right".
Suzanne, THAT is a comment about what you said; you have a right to disagree with MY OPINION, but no... I did not intend to imply that you actually agree with or said what I did.
I KNOW we disagree, and that is what I believe my original statement indicated.
have I put you down for admitting to me as being a homosexual??
Suzanne, I didn't claim that you intended to put me down. Still, that doesn't mean that the meaning of your biblical interpretations are NOT effective as a putdown. The effect is the same, despite the intent.
NO! have I told you a truth that the WRITTEN WORD OF GOD does not CONDONE THIS ACT OF SEXUALITY?
Of course you have SAID that; but it does not mean that I will interpret the Bible as YOU do.
YES! IN truth In the OLD testament and In the NEW TESTAMENT it is SAID TO be an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD THY GOD!
Again, I will not try to tell Christians how to interpret the Bible; those arguments never end. But I will ALWAYS advocate for the right of homosexual people to be treated fairly by God's grace. Don't expect us to stop seeking that.
NOW if you choose to call me a liar and not believe what has already been written and ordained as being an ABOMINATION TO GOD ALMIGHTY MY LORD AND YOURS> whether you like the truth or not it is no less then the truth that is written has been written and is the WORD OF OUR LORD GOD CREATOR whether you agree or not.
Look; IF the interpretation you have it THE ONE TRUE interpretation and text, then SO BE IT. Even so, if I cannot or will not believe it as you lay it out there; there is a limit that YOU must accept; I know I have a limit to what I can or will believe of what you say (for many reasons I have already discussed with you here).
I cannot help it if OUR CREATOR GOD HEAVENLY FATHER DOES NOT APPROVE OF MAN TO MAN OR WOMAN TO WOMAN SEXUAL ACTS.
That is again YOUR view and opinion of what the Bible and other interpretation of the same have told YOU. I cannot help it if you cannot accept the view I possess as a human being.
that is not my problem but the problem of all those that DISREGARD the truth of this SITUATION ACT OF SODOMY and DISOBEDIENCE TO what GOD HAS ALREADY IS AGAINST.
You have THIS much to say about it, and it not YOUR problem? YOu seem to MAKE it your problem (as many Christians do).
and has said is AN ABOMINATION IT IS ABOMNIBLE TO HIM not to mention to we who know what OUR LORD GOD HAS ALREADY said about this act...
The Bible says some things about homosexuality, and not nearly as much as it does about many other things. There are many abominations we can toss around in discussion, and they willl vary dependent upon one's interpretation of Scripture.
People DO NOT and never have believed in the Bible in the exact... same... way/s.
NOW I DO NOT HATE YOU for being a homosexual YET I NEITHER WILL CONDONE IT AS AN ACT TO BE PRACTICED. ok?
I sensed that YOU don't intend to be hateful, but I can say that the effect of much you have said is far from
inviting.
WHY?? because it can and does cause many problems for not only the ONE DOING the act and the person that is CONDONING IT BY BEING AA PARTAKER ALSO IN THE ACT. but it causes DESEASES.
Unbridled hedonism and irresponsibile human beings can make a mess of ANY GIFT they possess. Heterosexuals are not exempt from the very problems you attribute to homosexuals.
HURT AND PAIN FOR the PARENTS of the one that COMES OUT AND ADMITS TO SUCH . AND in OLDER TIMES IT WAS AN EMBARRESMENT AND A BLIGHT ON THE PARENTS and CAUSED the parents much embarresment and heartbreak because the parents were just as with a OUT OF WEDLOCK PREGNACY WAS LOOKED ON AS something of SHAME FOR THE PARENTS.
I would not BLAME my parents, and only a very STUPID person would see my parents as being "responsible" for my sexual-orientation. I know some people need to place BLAME to make sense of things, but sometimes only GOD HIMSELF knows the 100% true answer to any given situation; just a fact of life.
I must say and do say that this is not GIVING HONOR TO GOD NOR THE EARTHLY MOTHER AND FATHER THAT GOD HAS had the Son or daughter being birthed into this world by/// OR have you forgotten the THOU SHALT honor thy mother and father. Of the ten commandments.
Look, I take care of my parents, and there is much HONOR from all of my siblings as well. My homosexuality has not been placed upon them as shame. They had no control over what happened to me, their son, as it pertains to my sexual orientation. It is relaly stupid to suggest that they did. I remember that they set the best of examples in love, respect for one another, and my father did all he could to affect me so that I could become a man. And let me tell you, there may be heterosexual men who THINK they are more of a man than me, but that is their own folly.
I guess no love lost on this commandment huh??
That commandment has nothing to do with what is being discussed here; I know you think it does, but I don't believe it does.
let along disregarding the SIN of IMMORAL AND UNNATURAL sexual practices IGNORING THIS ... and FORGOING what Godhad already ordained as right and good and righteous as to sexual activity between a husband and a wife meaning man and woman.
You have NO CLUE, what I've gone to God about and discussed in many prayers; and I could prove any of that to you here (even if I tried). So, this is where some things are left to interaction between God and the individual. I DON'T tell you how you should be viewing the DIVORCE you had (now do I)? That's between you, that person you were married to, and God Himself. But be certain, that I SURELY COULD find some sets of biblical verses, and stand poised to RIP you a new one (if that were my goal or perceived calling). Still, I don't think it's my place to make judgements about that period. There are way too many people, who think it is their primary CALLING to set "homosexuals" straight; HYPOCRITES!!!
You can sit here and tell me how THIS is an ok act and that you cannot help yourself because you are just a homosexual all you want to but it is still not what GOD had planned nor had ordained for any man or woman period.
I didn't even say that is was "ok". I basically advocated that it is NOT OK for you and others to bear down upon homosexuals as you often do. There are many offenses that are ignored (by comparison), and it really does end up making many Christians into massive hypocrites (overall).
I believe that YOU and others can abstain from sexual activity with the same sex if they choose to do so. and this is CMMENDABLE AT BEST.
But what happens, is that an amazing amount of pressure is laid upon homosexuals by others, to regard what you claim above. And all too often, so much "perfection" is expected in that area, that there is likely no way anyone can deliver upon the very DEMANDS (or expectations) many Christians often make.
but to be DEPRIVED OF A NATURAL ORDAINED OF GOD RELATIONSHP with a woman and NOT TRUST IN THE LORD GOD TO change your heart and mind and GIVING YOU A NEW DIRECTION and a new inner change is also very unwise.
What is a HOMOSEXUAL MAN, going to do in a relationship with a WOMAN? (You tell me?) I have been in such relationships... I hardly even wanted to KISS women. Can you EXPLAIN THAT?! (Really?)
yet if you have no faith that GOD can do this for you then of course it cannot and will not be so or accomplished. FOR IF one has no faith in what GOD CAN DO for us then WE CANNOT PLEASE GOD.
You either have not read what I've pointed out in the many previous posts, or you just think that others should comply with what you "believe" to be true. I did not exagerrate the REALITY that I spent literal DECADES trying to be interested in women. (IT DID NOT WORK.) Is it that you don't think homosexual-orientations actually exist? (They certainly do; and I had to learn it the LONG/HARD way.)
Now of course this is just what I believe ok.
And that is why you should likely NEVER ride the back of a homosexual person, using YOUR biblical interpretation of what they are or are about. You end up painting a terribly inaccurate picture of reality. I cannot deny what you have faith to believe, I can only tell you that I do not have the same faith which you possess.
but then I believe it because of MY FAITH IN GOD .
You have lived a completely different life from mine. I'm cannot question what your FAITH is about. My guesses and actual understanding of that would be TERRIBLE; and I KNOW that. And so it goes with what you THINK you know about my struggles as a Christian (who happens to be a homosexual person).
I CANNOT DENY my father whom is in heaven any more then any other CHRISTIN CAN if they KNOW the truth He has ALREADY HAD written OF HIMSELF US AND THE HISTORY OF ALL THAT HAS EVER BEEN MADE AND IS MADE.. I believe that the PROVERB IS A TRUTH.
Again, many of us believe and interpret the Bible (and life itself) in many different ways; there is NO GETTING AROUND THAT. That is why at some point/s, you just leave people to what either God or fate has to offer them. You cannot be worried about everything, nor can you control what's inside of them (even if you want to see them fixed, delivered, repaired, converted...whatever). There are real limits to the actual "autonomy" of any human being (including "
Christians"); some things must be left to God to do period.
ONLY A FOOL will SAY IN HIS HEART THERE IS NO GOD!
And may God forgive my UNBELIEF. Not ALL of us have been so blessed or fortunate, to have "faith" remain as intact as others. And across the entire spectra of human hearts which likely exists, the varied degrees of belief and unbelief are something that is God's and God's alone to actually fathom.
Maybe there are a LOT of FOOLS; even so I believe God can reach any fool He wants to reach; He has the power and love to find a way.
WELL I ain't no fool I may be many things . BUT to believe this is beyond what I can say.
I never saw you as a fool; even if I might imagine you can be stubborn. Still, I really don't know you; I'm sure God sees a perfect picture of who/what you are. I'm content with that.
BECAUSE I WILL NOT AND CANNOT deny GOD...
Sounds strong, encouraging and good. I've said things like that myself.
YOU ask then what about JESUS ??? IS he RISEN?? IS HE THE CHRIST???
Why wouldn't He turn me into a "HETEROSEXUAL", if I wanted it so much?
I know you can't answer that really; but that is a REAL and HEARTFELT inquiry from a person who has searched and struggled as I have. Again I tell you, you cannot begin to fathom what the struggling homosexual actually goes through (only God knows, and many more "Christians" need to accept that in the peace only God can grant them). You see, NOT riding the backs of "homosexuals", takes a LOT of faith for some people. IF God counts falling SPARROWS, then He knows the intricasies and nuances of the hearts and minds of homosexual people (many Christians have proved that they do not have a clue).
WAS HE AND IS HE A REAL PRESENCE???
I have always related to Jesus; His examples of love are the only real interest I've had in religion and Christianity.
IN my heart HE IS . just as HE IS IN MANY THAT have BELIEVED IN GOD the FATHER, THE WORD, and THE HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM.
Again, I cannot doubt nor verify what you claim here.
I can imagine there are many reasons people would just NOT REVEAL who they really are. ONE IS A CRIMINAL RECORD. THAT they are fearful of having being found out about.
Do you actually understand why most homosexuals in American societywould keep their sexual-oeirentation secret? (Don't imagine that you understand; learn the REAL REASONS.)
AGAIN there it is again HAVING NO FAITH AND BEING FEARFUL of what another or people may think or say or do.
I would question your wisdom, if you told me that you don't know the REAL RISKS or hazards of revealing one's sexual-orientation (if one is not a standard heterosexual).
When if the truth was just dealt with then it could all be out in the open and done and over with. ESPECIALLY IF TIME HAS ALREADY BEEN SERVED.
When was the last time you saw 1 or 100 Sunday testimonials, where people felt comfortable enough to admit they were "homosexual"? I spent the majority of my life in church, and did not EVER see that (not that I didn't want to see it, or give it). I knew how people tought about and treated homosexuals, so there was little logic in subjecting myself and any homophobic group of Chrsitians to that. Still, I believe that aspect needs to change.
OF course another incident could cause another jail or prison term IF the one that was already guilty once was NOT CHANGED INWARDLY to help him to stay clean so to speak. ALREADY HAD that expierence also WITH an ex son-in-law. after having the best opportunity he could have ever had a family a son and a wife that wouldlove him and be with him forever.
Homosexuals aren't CRIMINALS (unless they've commited an actual crime).
WELL WARNINGS AND GIVING LOVE TO HIM WAS NOT ENOUGH. after a LIFE OF IN AND OUT OF JAILS AND PRISONS HE AGAIN BROKE THE LAW. AFTER TWO YEARS BACK with a warning again and you are outa here. WELL AFTER TWO YEARS PROBATION DONE AND GONE AND TWO YEARS OF PRISON UNDER HIS BELT AGAIN he stole from me OF ALL PEOPLE who ACTUALLY LOVED HIM THE MOST!!! and HE knew it.WELL I AM NOT ONE TO GO BACK ON MY WORD when I had warned him. of the consequences.
You aren't God. And I understand the limitations of what you had to do for your own family. Your son-in-law is not me (or every other homosexual); I understand your concern and frustration about the people who happen to be.
I DID HAVE my daughter and NOW MY GRANDSON to consider.
Of course. From this distance, I can't second guess a thing yo had to do. I'm actually closer to God, than I am to you nevertheless.
IT make me cry today because of what HE LET go of yet some things and some people you cannot help them . DO I PRAY FOR HIM YES. DO I WANT HIM BACK IN MY GRANDSONS LIFE NO.
I've cried more than I can remember too. Nothing has been easy period.
HE is a bad influence on him this has been already proven to be so because he has not changed and may never change his attitude or his way of talking and being CRUDE and HAVE IT MY WAY and have what I want no matter what the cost. EVEN if it means taking it from someone or a store of choice.
I don't know what your son-in-law has as a problem. I'm sure there is something inside of him that I'd not understand, even if I knew him personally. Only God can FIX people like that (or any of us).
THERE is always the hope that HE CAN and will be changed and someday He and my GRANDSON CAN AT LEAST make amends with each other. BUT THIS TOO IS IN THE HANDS OF GOD just where I HAVE PLACED THIS EX SON IN LAW. I CRY OVER HIM YET. BUT tears come and tears go but my hope and faith that GOD CAN DO what none of us can.. does prevail within my heart and soul.
Again, I've seen sadness that I certainly DID NOT ask for myself. Even if I can't
prove that to YOU, I have to tell you that is what I understand as being true.
HAVE YOU EVER given it any thought that GOD CHASTIZES US ALL FOR OUR DISOBEDIENCE TO what HE HIMSELF HAS ALREADY ORDAINED TO BE A MORAL AND NATURAL ACT OF SEXUAL ACTIVITY that is meant for A HUSBAND AND WIFE MALE AND FEMALE NOT TWO OF THE SAME SEX.
I considered this seriously for most of my life. I don't think I know exactly how God handles every given situation in every life. I don't know where His grace takes some (in this life) and not others. I know that most people do not CHOOSE their sexual-orientation (even if being homosexual, is somehow a sin). As far as sexual acts, I think that if God didn't punish anyone for it at all, there would be plenty of "Christians" to step in and dish out more than enough punishment; that's how things seem to me anyway. Much of the CRUELTY I've seen directed AT homosexual people, is easy to see DOES NOT come from a loving God.
CONSIDERING THAT He uses people for this CHASTIZING AND CRRECTION then would it not be safe and right to say that PEOPLE THAT CORRECT A HOMOSEXUAL BY TELLING THEM IT IS AN ABOMINATION THEIR GOD IS WHAT HE WILL USE AND DO??????? WE AS CHRISTIAANS ARE TO ADMONISH ONE ANOTHER CORRECTING AND GIVING GUIDENCE TO EACH OTHER> ABOUT OUR EVIL AND SINFUL WAYS.. JUST AS I DID with the SITUATION ABOVE with the S-I-L BUT TO NO AVAIL.
Suzanne, some people are just JERKS, wearing Bible-like veneer; not God's holy messengers. It is really going to take more than some words coming out of people's mouths, to make sense to a homosexual person who has suffered at the hands/mouths of those same people.
If the light doesn't shine directly into/through the person in NEED, then there will be little of meaning actually COMMUNICATED.
why? DID HE NOT LISTEN > to what he was being told .
You may never know the full, exact reasons.
NOT wanting to believe that I and My daughter meant what we said.
Only God really knows.
He had lived his life by getting away with this in and out and people taking him back and never really showing him his losses.. the biggest porblem with him was HE NEVER HAD MANY IF ANY WINS!!!!! most were all losses I KNEW THIS from the first few times I talked to him . and later found I was right. all along. HE HAD not a good home life by any sense of the word. therefore he was already in a spin of a downhill road and was taking my grandson on that same road. if something did not change TRIED it did not work why?? because HE DID NOT BELIEVE IN the words that were being given to him to believe in. why? because HE was never able to believe anyone as to LOVING HIM AND REALLY CAREING FOR HIM .. NO FAITH!!! IN GOD. and NO FAITH IN THE WORDS being VOWED and spoken to him. so where is he today? WE ARE NOT CERTAIN. anyway I am not .
That is the way it is with HUMAN beings. Love always makes sense to me, trying to read God's mind or will, never really made any sense to me. That people can reject even good advice, is a massively complex concept to consider. Why do people act the way they do? Who really knows? Why do people do what they do? (I don't know.)
I DO believe in the essence of Jesus' message, and see amazing amounts of hope in the LOVE He showed this world (in what He said, and what he sacrificed for all).
Why do I
believe (at all)? Not because someone said (repeated) some
biblical words from a BOOK to me, but because I could actually relate to what Jesus did (love). Love makes sense to me, and so Jesus subsequently did as well (go figure).
I do not believe that anyone should beat up and injure with LIFE THREATENING INJURIES or murder a homosexual or a lesbian.
Me neither.
BUT neither do I believe that anyone has to condon their SEXUAAL ACTIVITIES THEY ARE PARTAKING IN AND ACTUALLY PRACTICING AS IN MARRIAGE!!! OR LIVING WITH ONE ANOTHER !!! OR HAVING THEIR URGES MET BY HAVING SEX WITH THE SAME SEX.
Ok. But you DO NOT and should not have the power to influence and control that part of who they are as human beings. You don't nave to condone anything at all; but you can't get in the way of their sexual expression, if it's not victimizing anyone in any real way. Your "faith" may not allow you to see it as right/good, but there are limits to what you can affect directly in the lives of other human beings.
IF THEY CAN ABSTAIN FROM SEX I GUESS THAT IS MORE POWER TO THEM THEN
They may or may not (abstain); just like heterosexual folks. Still, I see a lot "lighter" weight placed upon heterosexual-sinners than those who are homosexual.
BUT I personally would prefer they find a companion and someone they could have as a mate to have this SEXUAAL URGE satisfied gods way..
I'm sure before you even THOUGHT to consider what you "prefer", there have been billions (like myself), who have pleaded with God to simply CHANGE or TAKE AWAY their homosexual-orientation. Then there are the likely billions of people (like myself) who struggled to see the CHANGE that never came.
What could you really demand of a person who has endured in that way? In my view, I think only God can pass the proper judgement upon someone who is homosexual; others can only GUESS abut what's really going on inside.
BUT who am i but just a CHRISTIAN THAT would also like all to be blessed with LOVE THT was IN GODS will and way. and believe me that is far from the way it is for most. it is shown in the marriages that fail.
I know what you mean. Sometimes it's just to be taken one moment and thought at a time. I almost lost ALL my faith, because there were too many UN-answers for my mind to accept. Now, I go day-by-day and even moment-to-moment. I hope I can please God somehow, but I don't assume I can always get it "right". I once thought that I really could, but I was absolutely mistaken.
If I don't have God's: Faith, Hope, Grace and LOVE, then there is really nothing to try for (in the biblical sense); I'd
fail with every single breath I take.
-Mel-
:):):)I EXPECT TO HAVE that when I am no longer here to be seen by anyone at all AND MY KYDS better not CREMATE ME EITHER. I ALREADY BEEN CLOSE ENOUGH TO BEING BURNED UP and that was enough for me. THAT DID something to my PHYSCY. that is for certain. I COULD CRY just thinking about CREMATION. 
