I discussed the reasons with otseng the reasons why my original OP was moved.
The thread was originally begun as a response to the thread begun by jagella on 4/16, called "The Joy of Atheism". Since according to him/her there is joy in being an atheist, I figured that Christianity ought to get the same sort of posting.
Several of you have responded, and I thank you for that, even the ones who pointed out the flaw in the OP, and following that there was "nothing to debate" because there was no question asked.
So here is the reworked OP in the next post.
What are the joys of being a Christian?
What are the joys of being a Christian?
Moderator: Moderators
Post #91
[Replying to post 87 by Bust Nak]
Therefore the logical explanation is that you are by your proposing another way, you are by definition creating "multiple ways". You must see that your failure to be specific is actually a contradiction of what Jesus said.
Your statement I have never implied such a thing, cannot be maintained in the face of your "requirement for entrance into heaven" is examined.
Nevertheless, the purpose of that chart was to demonstrate that Jesus made the claim of exclusivity many times, and by the preponderance of the evidence, it renders your claim of "nice guys get to heaven" belief to be in complete contradiction to the meaning and intent of the words of Jesus.
Bust, the reason for the confusion is the fact that you are redefining the meaning of what Jesus Christ stated. Yeah, you "agree that Jesus said there is "one way" but then you say that it is being "ambiguously nice" and that is the redefinition of "going through Jesus".Don't care you are "tag teaming" or not. The fact is, both of you made the same point re: there isn't multiple ways into heaven, when I have never implied such a thing, so I want to know why you guys are bringing this "multiple ways" business up.
Therefore the logical explanation is that you are by your proposing another way, you are by definition creating "multiple ways". You must see that your failure to be specific is actually a contradiction of what Jesus said.
Your statement I have never implied such a thing, cannot be maintained in the face of your "requirement for entrance into heaven" is examined.
That is why I made the parenthetical statementI fail to see the relevance of any of that. I have not questioned, let alone challenged the idea that Jesus is claiming to be God whatsoever.Quote:
Here is something that may help you see what we are stating
...
Here are 14 different statements, (two statements are repeated twice) 9 are metaphorical, and 5 are absolute, meaning that Jesus stated that He is, and always is, which is a definition of deity. (I will leave that to another discussion.)
Nevertheless, the purpose of that chart was to demonstrate that Jesus made the claim of exclusivity many times, and by the preponderance of the evidence, it renders your claim of "nice guys get to heaven" belief to be in complete contradiction to the meaning and intent of the words of Jesus.
I answered that aboveI have no idea how to answer you, as the two issues doesn't seem to be related at all. Unrelated claims are trivially consistent with each other. Why would you think there is any inconsistence there? Maybe I will be able to answer you after I figure out where you are coming from.So in the light of those statements, I ask you how you are able to maintain that "Jesus said being a good person gets one into heaven"? It seems to be somewhat inconsistent.
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Post #92
Bust Nak wrote:
Here's what the Bible says:
1 Cor. 6:9-11: Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
That last line is key. We are justified by the Holy Spirit. Justification means we are given right-standing with God, not on the basis of who we are or what we did, but on the basis of who Jesus is and what he did, namely, die in our place, taking the punishment for our sins.
We also have this:
Eph. 5:5: For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Rev. 21:27: Nothing impure will ever enter it (the New Jerusalem), nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
How do you get your name in the Lamb's book of life? By acknowledging you're a sinner and accepting Christ as Lord and Saviour. That's the only way.
If you've told one lie in your life, said one unkind thing to one person, stolen as much as a pen from work, cheated on an exam, didn't give back money that was mistakenly overpaid to you, committed fornication, gossiped about a neighbour, then you have failed to meet God's standard of sinlessness. You would have to have NEVER committed a sin to spend eternity with God. None of us can make that claim. I certainly can't. That's why I'm glad to have Jesus. Without him I'd be lost forever.
But Jesus can't do that. There is NO such thing as a good, nice person in God's eyes. In Rom. 3:10, we read, "There is no one righteous, not even one." We are all born with sin natures that we can't change ourselves. Therefore, NOBODY is good enough or nice enough to enter heaven.Or maybe Jesus the sin-free savior will give every "good" (nice) person regardless of our beliefs, his righteousness for our sins? Jesus is still the only way in my alternative.
Here's what the Bible says:
1 Cor. 6:9-11: Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
That last line is key. We are justified by the Holy Spirit. Justification means we are given right-standing with God, not on the basis of who we are or what we did, but on the basis of who Jesus is and what he did, namely, die in our place, taking the punishment for our sins.
We also have this:
Eph. 5:5: For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Rev. 21:27: Nothing impure will ever enter it (the New Jerusalem), nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
How do you get your name in the Lamb's book of life? By acknowledging you're a sinner and accepting Christ as Lord and Saviour. That's the only way.
If you've told one lie in your life, said one unkind thing to one person, stolen as much as a pen from work, cheated on an exam, didn't give back money that was mistakenly overpaid to you, committed fornication, gossiped about a neighbour, then you have failed to meet God's standard of sinlessness. You would have to have NEVER committed a sin to spend eternity with God. None of us can make that claim. I certainly can't. That's why I'm glad to have Jesus. Without him I'd be lost forever.
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Post #93
That's still just one way, right? You are in the same situation in that you say that it is "believing in Jesus as the messiah, the only begotten son of God" (alternatively insert your favorite wording here) and that is the redefinition of "going through Jesus".By Grace wrote: Bust, the reason for the confusion is the fact that you are redefining the meaning of what Jesus Christ stated. Yeah, you "agree that Jesus said there is "one way" but then you say that it is being "ambiguously nice" and that is the redefinition of "going through Jesus".
How on Earth is that not still just one way?Therefore the logical explanation is that you are by your proposing another way...
How so? Nothing in those verses you stated said anything what so ever about who does or does not go to heaven.Nevertheless, the purpose of that chart was to demonstrate that Jesus made the claim of exclusivity many times, and by the preponderance of the evidence, it renders your claim of "nice guys get to heaven" belief to be in complete contradiction to the meaning and intent of the words of Jesus.
Not clear enough for me, I am afraid. I still can't see where you think there is any contradiction.I answered that above
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Post #94
No one is righteous enough to get into heaven, sure, that's why I highlighted the point about a sin-free savior giving us his righteousness.Overcomer wrote: But Jesus can't do that. There is NO such thing as a good, nice person in God's eyes. In Rom. 3:10, we read, "There is no one righteous, not even one." We are all born with sin natures that we can't change ourselves. Therefore, NOBODY is good enough or nice enough to enter heaven.
Sure, the question here is, who are this "we" supposed to be, nice people or those who acknowledges he is a sinner and accepting Christ as Lord and Saviour?That last line is key. We are justified by the Holy Spirit...
So you keep telling me. What if being a nice person is the only way to get your name in the Lamb's book of life?How do you get your name in the Lamb's book of life? By acknowledging you're a sinner and accepting Christ as Lord and Saviour. That's the only way.
Post #95
[Replying to post 91 by Bust Nak]
BK says 1=1. Numbers
Overcomer and I say "Different content constitutes a different way, therefore two ways."
Both are correct as far as they go, but logically, both cannot be correct because the content is different, and that creates a contradiction.
So I have addressed what I believe is the crux of disagreement; essentially, we are speaking different languages to you, using English.
Can you lay aside your "number speaking" and address the content of our different viewpoints?
The difference in our viewpoints is that you are posting on a "numerical basis" and both overcomer and I are posting on a "content basis".That's still just one way, right? You are in the same situation in that you say that it is "believing in Jesus as the messiah, the only begotten son of God" (alternatively insert your favorite wording here) and that is the redefinition of "going through Jesus".By Grace wrote:
Bust, the reason for the confusion is the fact that you are redefining the meaning of what Jesus Christ stated. Yeah, you "agree that Jesus said there is "one way" but then you say that it is being "ambiguously nice" and that is the redefinition of "going through Jesus".
BK says 1=1. Numbers
Overcomer and I say "Different content constitutes a different way, therefore two ways."
Both are correct as far as they go, but logically, both cannot be correct because the content is different, and that creates a contradiction.
So I have addressed what I believe is the crux of disagreement; essentially, we are speaking different languages to you, using English.
Can you lay aside your "number speaking" and address the content of our different viewpoints?
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Post #96
There are indeed two proposed ways, the question is which one of the proposal matches the one and only way spoke about by Jesus.By Grace wrote: The difference in our viewpoints is that you are posting on a "numerical basis" and both overcomer and I are posting on a "content basis".
BK says 1=1. Numbers
Overcomer and I say "Different content constitutes a different way, therefore two ways."
It is different to yours, I wasn't trying to reconcile my alternative with yours. Instead I was trying to reconcile my alternative with what Jesus said. So I ask you again, why do you think my proposal contradicts with the verses you listed above?Can you lay aside your "number speaking" and address the content of our different viewpoints?
Post #97
[Replying to post 94 by Bust Nak]
Let's back up a few posts so I can answer your question:
Here is something that may help you see what we are stating
The “I Am� Statements of Jesus in the Gospel of John
Absolute “I am� statements 6:20; 8:24, 28, 58; 18:5
John 6:20 But he said to them, “ It is I; do not be afraid.
John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe thatI am he you will die in your sins.�
John 8:28 So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.�
John 18:5 They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.� Jesus said to them, “I am he.� Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
6 When Jesus said to them, “I am he,� they drew back and fell to the ground.
By the term "absolute" I mean that there are no qualifiers, nor equivocations. More importantly in the language that is used, Jesus spoke Aramaic, which is a form of Hebrew, (as is Yiddish) and John wrote in the lingua franca of the day, Greek John writes that Jesus was declaring Himself to be God incarnate.
That is blasphemy for a man to proclaim himself to be God, and at one time, the people around Jesus wanted to stone Him for saying that. But most telling about that usage is in John 18, when the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, and He declared Himself to be God, the soldiers fell backwards onto the ground. It was as if they were pushed back (I believe that an angel did it, but that is besides the point because it is an argument from silence)
So why were the band of fit and strong battle-ready soldiers doing on the ground? They heard Jesus declare that He is God. Unlike any person having a delusion, declaring himself to be God, there is never such a reaction as the soldiers experienced.
These statements are all unconditionally stating the same thing: Jesus says
"I am God"
However, because John writes in Greek, there is a more forceful way that he pens it. the verb (transliterated as "eime") is a present active indicative verb, first person singular, masculine. Here is a short bit of Greek grammar:
Active Voice
Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is executing the action, then the verb is referred to as being in the active voice.
Present Tense
The present tense usually denotes continuous kind of action. It shows 'action in progress' or 'a state of persistence.' When used in the indicative mood, the present tense denotes action taking place or going on in the present time.
from https://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/verbs1.htm
So John is recognizing the absolute deity of Jesus here, and there is no equivocation whatsoever.
Therefore these alone, both in content and in grammar indicate that what Jesus says is absolutely, and unequivocally the ONLY way..
More to come, but I am tired.
Hope this helps
At least we are seemingly understand the position of the other. For a while, I believed that you may have been playing passive-aggressive games. The subsequent posts you made did not exhibit those traits, so I pressed on to understand your position.It is different to yours, I wasn't trying to reconcile my alternative with yours. Instead I was trying to reconcile my alternative with what Jesus said. So I ask you again, why do you think my proposal contradicts with the verses you listed above?Quote:
Can you lay aside your "number speaking" and address the content of our different viewpoints?
Let's back up a few posts so I can answer your question:
Here is something that may help you see what we are stating
The “I Am� Statements of Jesus in the Gospel of John
Absolute “I am� statements 6:20; 8:24, 28, 58; 18:5
John 6:20 But he said to them, “ It is I; do not be afraid.
John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe thatI am he you will die in your sins.�
John 8:28 So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.�
John 18:5 They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.� Jesus said to them, “I am he.� Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
6 When Jesus said to them, “I am he,� they drew back and fell to the ground.
By the term "absolute" I mean that there are no qualifiers, nor equivocations. More importantly in the language that is used, Jesus spoke Aramaic, which is a form of Hebrew, (as is Yiddish) and John wrote in the lingua franca of the day, Greek John writes that Jesus was declaring Himself to be God incarnate.
That is blasphemy for a man to proclaim himself to be God, and at one time, the people around Jesus wanted to stone Him for saying that. But most telling about that usage is in John 18, when the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, and He declared Himself to be God, the soldiers fell backwards onto the ground. It was as if they were pushed back (I believe that an angel did it, but that is besides the point because it is an argument from silence)
So why were the band of fit and strong battle-ready soldiers doing on the ground? They heard Jesus declare that He is God. Unlike any person having a delusion, declaring himself to be God, there is never such a reaction as the soldiers experienced.
These statements are all unconditionally stating the same thing: Jesus says
"I am God"
However, because John writes in Greek, there is a more forceful way that he pens it. the verb (transliterated as "eime") is a present active indicative verb, first person singular, masculine. Here is a short bit of Greek grammar:
Active Voice
Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is executing the action, then the verb is referred to as being in the active voice.
Present Tense
The present tense usually denotes continuous kind of action. It shows 'action in progress' or 'a state of persistence.' When used in the indicative mood, the present tense denotes action taking place or going on in the present time.
from https://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/verbs1.htm
So John is recognizing the absolute deity of Jesus here, and there is no equivocation whatsoever.
Therefore these alone, both in content and in grammar indicate that what Jesus says is absolutely, and unequivocally the ONLY way..
More to come, but I am tired.
Hope this helps
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Post #98
By Grace wrote:
As By Grace noted, Christ's I AM statement in John 8:58 is significant. “I AM� is a name that Yahweh gave himself in Ex. 3:14. It refers to the eternality of God -- that he was and is and always will be. The present participle makes his existence ongoing. Jesus used the title of himself. That means that he was claiming to be eternal God, having always existed. The fact that the people picked up rocks to stone him shows that they knew he was calling himself God because stoning someone to death was what one did with a blasphemer (Lev. 24:16). And, as I pointed out, that's what blasphemy was -- declaring one's self to be God. See here:
https://www.compellingtruth.org/Jesus-I-AM.html
Then there's Mark 2:1-11. Four men bring a paralytic on a mat. Jesus says to him, “Your sins are forgiven.� The Pharisees are incensed and say, “Only God can forgive sins.� Jesus replies that he has the authority to forgive sins. Therefore, he’s saying that he is God.
Jesus allowed people to worship him. When Thomas called him “My Lord and my God� (John 20:28), Jesus did not correct him. He allowed people to worship him many times (See Matt. 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). If he had been a mere Jewish man, he would never have allowed that. If he had been an angel, he never would have allowed it because only God can be worshipped. In Matt. 4:10, we read " . . . You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only."
And then there’s Jesus’ use of the title “Son of Man� to describe himself. He is referring to the divine figure in Dan. 7:13-14. The High Priest recognizes he is claiming to be God and declares him guilty of blasphemy for doing so. For more read here:
https://www.bethinking.org/jesus/jesus-the-son-of-man
The title “Son of God� would also have been understood as a claim to be God. In the Ancient Near East, “son of� meant “a likeness of nature and equality of being� according to Charles Ryrie in Basic Theology. In John 19:7, the Jews insisted that Christ must die because he claimed to be the Son of God, meaning that he was claiming to be divine.
Theologian Millard Erickson, in his book Christian Theology, notes that Jesus says of himself, “The Son of Man will send HIS angels and they will gather out of HIS kingdom all causes of sin and evildoers� (Matt. 13:41). He notes that, given that angels and the kingdom are both said to belong to God (Matt. 13:41, for example), and given that Jesus called them his own, it’s obvious that Jesus is saying that he is God.
Additionally, there’s the fact that Jesus gave himself the same authority as Scripture. In the Old Testament, prophets would speak for God, saying, “And the Word of the Lord came to me.� But Jesus says doesn't say he's speaking on behalf of God. He says, “You have heard it said . . . but I say to you . . . . (Matt. 5:21-22, 27-28).“ In other words, Jesus is speaking for himself as God Incarnate. See here:
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/deityofx.html
The God of the Bible presents himself as a Triune Being, that is, one God who exists in three persons, NOT three gods who make up one person as JWs erroneously define the Trinity in an attempt to discredit Christian belief in it.
That's true. I know that some people say Jesus himself never claimed to be God. but he did many times. That’s why the Pharisees, scribes, and Sadducees accused him of blasphemy. That’s what blasphemy was – declaring one’s self to be God. John 10:33 reads, “You, a mere man, claim to be God.� And Jesus did not deny it because he was, indeed, declaring himself to be God.So John is recognizing the absolute deity of Jesus here, and there is no equivocation whatsoever.
As By Grace noted, Christ's I AM statement in John 8:58 is significant. “I AM� is a name that Yahweh gave himself in Ex. 3:14. It refers to the eternality of God -- that he was and is and always will be. The present participle makes his existence ongoing. Jesus used the title of himself. That means that he was claiming to be eternal God, having always existed. The fact that the people picked up rocks to stone him shows that they knew he was calling himself God because stoning someone to death was what one did with a blasphemer (Lev. 24:16). And, as I pointed out, that's what blasphemy was -- declaring one's self to be God. See here:
https://www.compellingtruth.org/Jesus-I-AM.html
Then there's Mark 2:1-11. Four men bring a paralytic on a mat. Jesus says to him, “Your sins are forgiven.� The Pharisees are incensed and say, “Only God can forgive sins.� Jesus replies that he has the authority to forgive sins. Therefore, he’s saying that he is God.
Jesus allowed people to worship him. When Thomas called him “My Lord and my God� (John 20:28), Jesus did not correct him. He allowed people to worship him many times (See Matt. 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). If he had been a mere Jewish man, he would never have allowed that. If he had been an angel, he never would have allowed it because only God can be worshipped. In Matt. 4:10, we read " . . . You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only."
And then there’s Jesus’ use of the title “Son of Man� to describe himself. He is referring to the divine figure in Dan. 7:13-14. The High Priest recognizes he is claiming to be God and declares him guilty of blasphemy for doing so. For more read here:
https://www.bethinking.org/jesus/jesus-the-son-of-man
The title “Son of God� would also have been understood as a claim to be God. In the Ancient Near East, “son of� meant “a likeness of nature and equality of being� according to Charles Ryrie in Basic Theology. In John 19:7, the Jews insisted that Christ must die because he claimed to be the Son of God, meaning that he was claiming to be divine.
Theologian Millard Erickson, in his book Christian Theology, notes that Jesus says of himself, “The Son of Man will send HIS angels and they will gather out of HIS kingdom all causes of sin and evildoers� (Matt. 13:41). He notes that, given that angels and the kingdom are both said to belong to God (Matt. 13:41, for example), and given that Jesus called them his own, it’s obvious that Jesus is saying that he is God.
Additionally, there’s the fact that Jesus gave himself the same authority as Scripture. In the Old Testament, prophets would speak for God, saying, “And the Word of the Lord came to me.� But Jesus says doesn't say he's speaking on behalf of God. He says, “You have heard it said . . . but I say to you . . . . (Matt. 5:21-22, 27-28).“ In other words, Jesus is speaking for himself as God Incarnate. See here:
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/deityofx.html
The God of the Bible presents himself as a Triune Being, that is, one God who exists in three persons, NOT three gods who make up one person as JWs erroneously define the Trinity in an attempt to discredit Christian belief in it.
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Post #99
[Replying to post 95 by By Grace]
That's all fine, I can confirm that according to the Bible, Jesus is not merely claiming to be the messiah, but God in the flesh. I still do see why that would contradict anything I said re: nice people go to heaven. There are plenty of verses in the Bible that talks about the importance of belief and I find it rather odd that you are not appealing to those verses instead.
That's all fine, I can confirm that according to the Bible, Jesus is not merely claiming to be the messiah, but God in the flesh. I still do see why that would contradict anything I said re: nice people go to heaven. There are plenty of verses in the Bible that talks about the importance of belief and I find it rather odd that you are not appealing to those verses instead.
Post #100
[Replying to post 97 by Bust Nak]
I am struggling to find an analogy, and the closest ones are the belief of the existence of the Loch Ness monster, and those deluded souls who believe in "cryptobiology" . (Look up that term on the web if you want a laugh.)
Here is another error of logic in your position:you are conflating two discrete items, getting into heaven and belief:
Jesus NEVER stated anything about "nice people" nor does the Bible say anything about being "nice" . Instead, it condemns us all:
Psalm 51: 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,and in sin did my mother conceive me
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things,and desperately sick; who can understand it?
Romans 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Galatians 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do
1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
ESV
And there are lots more, all saying the same thing: We are born as enemies of God; ONLY Jesus Christ can change that, and it has nothing to do with "being nice".
Essentially, your position is attempting to take an absence of data, (which is a negative statement) and then morph it into a doctrine (a positive statement) that has Jesus saying, "nice people go to heaven". Logically speaking, that is impossible, and simply is contrary to common, rational sense.Replying to post 95 by By Grace]
That's all fine, I can confirm that according to the Bible, Jesus is not merely claiming to be the messiah, but God in the flesh. I still do see why that would contradict anything I said re: nice people go to heaven. There are plenty of verses in the Bible that talks about the importance of belief and I find it rather odd that you are not appealing to those verses instead.
I am struggling to find an analogy, and the closest ones are the belief of the existence of the Loch Ness monster, and those deluded souls who believe in "cryptobiology" . (Look up that term on the web if you want a laugh.)
Here is another error of logic in your position:you are conflating two discrete items, getting into heaven and belief:
in order to create a third and different position about "nice people".I said re: nice people go to heaven. There are plenty of verses in the Bible that talks about the importance of belief
Jesus NEVER stated anything about "nice people" nor does the Bible say anything about being "nice" . Instead, it condemns us all:
Psalm 51: 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,and in sin did my mother conceive me
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things,and desperately sick; who can understand it?
Romans 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Galatians 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do
1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
ESV
And there are lots more, all saying the same thing: We are born as enemies of God; ONLY Jesus Christ can change that, and it has nothing to do with "being nice".
