Does belief matter at all?

[Willum]

If you believe in Heaven.
If you believe in redemption.
If you believe in monotheism, or a monotheism that is a trinity.
If you believe they put a man on the moon.

Why would you think it has any effect on reality?
Why would you think it has any effect on the afterlife or God?
Realtiy, whatever it is, IS what it is, right?

If termites prayed to you would it make a difference?

Reality will be unchanged by your beliefs, right?
God is perfect and unchanged by your beliefs right?

So how does belief change God or what happens ever, or after you die?

If one termite believes you are his savior, and one believes I am it's saviour, does this change anything at all?

[bluethread]

If one termite believes you are his savior, and one believes I am it's saviour, does this change anything at all?

It changes things for the termites. It also might change things for me, if I don't want my house damaged. However, that latter is stretching the analogy.

[Tcg]

If one termite believes you are his savior, and one believes I am it's saviour, does this change anything at all?

They may both gain some false comfort from their belief. That false comfort won't change the fact that my termite will get squashed under my boot the first chance I get and your termite will get gassed with pesticides just as fast.

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

It changes the way the termites behave.

This may seem like a trivial point, but there are many things that are "true" only true because we believe them so. The idea that money has value, for instance.

Even more fundamental is language. The words we utter have no "meaning" outside human perception, yet they are so foundational to our cognition that we can barely imagine a world without them.

To the religious, God is a similar kind of idea, which is why it is so difficult to dislodge them from it.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

If you believe in Heaven.
If you believe in redemption.
If you believe in monotheism, or a monotheism that is a trinity.
If you believe they put a man on the moon.

Why would you think it has any effect on reality?

'Cause it might be that stuff there's the only reason I can make me any sense of it.

Why would you think it has any effect on the afterlife or God?

My reality has no need for such notions, 'cept maybe that man on the moonin', and how it is, I'm a bit jealous I wasn't me the one that done did it.

Realtiy, whatever it is, IS what it is, right?

Ask that guy up there in Kentucky who built him an ark, and has yet to see the flood of folks a-visitin' he thought they would.

If termites prayed to you would it make a difference?

I wouldn't hafta spray for 'em here and there, or time to time.

Reality will be unchanged by your beliefs, right?

I'm a schizophrenic, reality is for me, merely a concept.

God is perfect and unchanged by your beliefs right?

Funny one that - where it is the very (Christian) humans that propose the Christian god concept, swear 'em up and down how it is humans are 'em so fallible after "The Fall", only don't it beat all, that same set of that same bunch of 'em'll swear up and down that by their own faulty human reasoning, he's him perfect. Bake that with a tater and see which'n'll first stop your stomach from growlin'.

So how does belief change God or what happens ever, or after you die?

Belief changes God every time a believer has 'em them a different one of 'em them one of 'em.

Then after they die, well don't it beat all, not the first'n of 'em's been seen to hop up, stroll through the flea market, and then fly away.

If one termite believes you are his savior, and one believes I am it's saviour, does this change anything at all?

That one termite there thinks it is I'm his savior, and that other'n there, he's him an infidel.

Conclusions?

I propose the god concept is merely an attempt to explain 'reality' among 'em that can't make 'em any sense 'em any of it, without introducing 'em the god concept to do it.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

It matters greatly to the people who believe.

It changes how they treat themselves and others, effects the choices they make from birth control to military service. It gives them strength and hope during hardship, if medical reports are to be believed, effects their health longevity and recovery during illness. In fact I cannot think of another single element that has as much potential to change individuals and societies as religious belief.

Arguably history was changed by the story of one such individual, a travelling teacher from the highlands of Galilee, one Jesus of Nazareth.



JW

[imhereforyou]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

Why would you think it has any effect on reality?
Why would you think it has any effect on the afterlife or God?

I'm curious as to who thinks this at all.

Realtiy, whatever it is, IS what it is, right?

Is it? Some may say no, or we don't know. All we know is what we know, we don't know what we don't know.

If termites prayed to you would it make a difference?

Depends on my fascination with termites. And, since they're praying, if I do anything to/for them, then it would matter to them I'd think.

God is perfect and unchanged by your beliefs right?

I was told once, by a preacher, that if enough people prayed, it could change God's action or potential action.
[quote[So how does belief change God or what happens ever, or after you die? [/quote] I don't know of anyone who makes this claim.

Seems to me that belief only matters to the one believing.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 7 by imhereforyou]

Well, some people think that what they believe controls whether they go to Heaven, or Hell with the other 99% of us.

Whereas, the point everyone seemed to focus on was how important the beliefs of termites and themselves were.

Isn't it possible, that, whatever happens after we die, has nothing to do with what we believe?
Or, that should we invoke a divine arbiter, he's got standards of behavior, rather then judging you on what kind of meat you believe is wholesome?

Thank you for actually addressing the topic, and not the termites!

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 6:

It matters greatly to the people who believe.

It changes how they treat themselves and others, effects the choices they make from birth control to military service.

And to the stoning of folks, the discrimationin'ns of 'em, and all such as that.

Let's be real here, religious belief can be, and has been shown to be, a step t'wards the repressions and oppressions of folks who don't toe 'em to "God says ya'll don't do that, only I can't show he actually said such, I just gotta find me a Congresscritter that'll do me my God's biddin', 'cause it is, he's too danged weak, or too danged inept, to do it himself, and so am I".

It gives them strength and hope during hardship, if medical reports are to be believed, effects their health longevity and recovery during illness.

That a belief may help one to overcome illness, if even to a scientifically viable number, says nothing about the validity of that belief.

I can believe I'm me a duck, and live me to a hunderd and three - that don't mean it was I thought I was me a duck that caused me to do it.

In fact I cannot think of another single element that has as much potential to change individuals and societies as religious belief.

A lack of imagination is hardly a compelling argument regarding the validity of 'em that have 'em a rampent one of them one of 'em.

Arguably history was changed by the story of one such individual, a travelling teacher from the highlands of Galilee, one Jesus of Nazareth.

History also includes such folks tryin' to figure 'em out the differentials twixt the weight of 'em a duck, and 'em the weight of a witch, by a-dunkin' em one or more'n a few of 'em into a body of water, only to realize, they ain't got 'em no calcutater to do 'em the math with.


Conclusions?

That history was changed by a notion says very little about the truthfullness of that notion, or about the weight of a duck.

[Overcomer]

Everybody believes in something. As G. K. Chesterton put it, “When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing; they then become capable of believing in anything.�