The pursuit of happiness

[2ndRateMind]

So, the US Declaration of Independence considers the rights to 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' to be endowed by our Creator such that they cannot be divorced from the human condition. These rights, of course, form a hierarchy: if you have no right to life, your rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness are meaningless. Similarly, if you have no right to liberty, you have no right to pursue happiness as best you see fit.

I would like to explore, however, with the help of the forum, this right to the pursuit of happiness. What makes you happy? How best do you think we should express this right to the pursuit of happiness? Does this right have limits, when our own pursuit of happiness impacts someone else's ability to pursue their own happiness?

According to Plato, Socrates thought that all human beings naturally strive after happiness, for happiness is the final end in life and everything we do we do because we think it will make us happy.

Thus, without wishing to prejudice any direction this thread may take, I will observe the following. I have found, in my life, that happiness is best achieved indirectly, as a byproduct of meaningful, purposeful, ethical activity. And it has nothing to do with wealth, once a certain subsistence level is reached. Thus, though I might be richer as a result, mugging old ladies for the contents of their purses would not make me happy, while creating (what I consider to be) well-crafted artworks does, by manifesting beauty in the world.

I also note that the right to pursue happiness does not automatically presume a right to be happy. So, what would be your prescription as to the best way to pursue happiness, and the best way to achieve it?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[2ndRateMind]

Hmmm. A day gone by, and no takers. Maybe you all don't want to be happy, or maybe you all don't know how to be happy. Whatever, feel free to talk around the topic, at whatever tangent you care to.

One such tangent that occurs to me is this possibility; that our own right to pursue happiness stops at precisely the point where it prevents someone else from pursuing theirs. If I gain my own happiness at the expense of someone else's, then I am denying them the right I think so important when it is mine. That doesn't seem to be what the authors of the Declaration of Independence had in mind.

Best wishes, 2RM

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 1 by 2ndRateMind]

For what it's worth, I don't like the whole concept of "rights." There is no fundamental difference between rights and privileges. What people refer to as rights are just privileges with lower bars of entry. We are at the mercy of our fellow citizen in our society when it comes to rights.

It gets worse (even more meaningless) with the right to the pursuit of happiness, as having the right to liberty, already covers the pursuit of happiness. Liberty must mean something more than outlawing chattel slavery, it must include the right to do what I want.

As for what makes me happy, lots of things including debating online, video and board games.

As for the point you made, when rights of one person inevitably clashes with another, we have to decide whose right trumps whose. i.e. the right not to be punched trumps the right to throw punches anytime anywhere you wish.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 3 by Bust Nak]

I'm inclined to agree with you about loose talk around rights. For me, a right is a universal privilege enshrined in law. Thus, when people say 'I have a right to (for example) free speech', what they actually mean is: everyone's capacity to speak as they please should be protected by law, and enforced by the police and judiciary. Then, it becomes apparent that their 'right' entails duties on others, not least the forbearance of those who may disagree with them, and a certain amount of cost to be born by society and the tax-payer. I think there would be fewer 'rights' bestowed, were there more consciousness of this cost.

That is not to say, however, that rights should not be bestowed as society sees fit. Just that there needs be an ongoing conversation around the matter, as the prevailing social mores develop and change.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[2ndRateMind]

..As for what makes me happy, lots of things including debating online, video and board games...

Uh huh. I do not mean unduly to criticise, but I think the authors of the Declaration of Independence had a more profound concept of happiness in mind than a mere diversion from existential angst. Perhaps debating and playing games is what you were created to do, in which case, ignore me. But I think happiness is to be found in a deep contentment with oneself, with the world, and with one's relationship with the world. Get these three right, and then one can truly claim to be happy, rather than merely having 'fun'.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[bluethread]

Hmmm. A day gone by, and no takers. Maybe you all don't want to be happy, or maybe you all don't know how to be happy.

Sorry, I have been busy persuing happiness. That said, it is not a reference to being joyful. In fact, it wasn't even in the first draft of the Declaration. Originally it was property. Property rights are the foundation of any successful economy. That was the principle that Jefferson had in mind. So, the persuit of happiness is not a hedonistic principle, but an economic one. It means one has the right to use one's resources as one see fit.

[Bust Nak]

But I think happiness is to be found in a deep contentment with oneself, with the world, and with one's relationship with the world. Get these three right, and then one can truly claim to be happy, rather than merely having 'fun'.

Then let me add seeing the smiles of my spose and my child to the short list then.

[2ndRateMind]

Hmmm. A day gone by, and no takers. Maybe you all don't want to be happy, or maybe you all don't know how to be happy.

Sorry, I have been busy persuing happiness. That said, it is not a reference to being joyful. In fact, it wasn't even in the first draft of the Declaration. Originally it was property.

I am glad you have been pursuing happiness. I genuinely hope that your pursuit is successful. The more happy people there are in the world, the happier I shall be.

But, I think you you need to evidence this claim that happiness equates to property. I am not rich, but I am happy. And I know of people who are rich, but not happy. The two states, economic stature and psychological fulfillment, seem to me to be entirely separate, once basic subsistence needs are met. Maybe this first draft was found faulty, for that reason.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[2ndRateMind]

But I think happiness is to be found in a deep contentment with oneself, with the world, and with one's relationship with the world. Get these three right, and then one can truly claim to be happy, rather than merely having 'fun'.

Then let me add seeing the smiles of my spose and my child to the short list then.

That works. May their smiles forever prompt your smiles. And yours, theirs.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Dimmesdale]

I have found, in my life, that happiness is best achieved indirectly, as a byproduct of meaningful, purposeful, ethical activity. And it has nothing to do with wealth, once a certain subsistence level is reached. Thus, though I might be richer as a result, mugging old ladies for the contents of their purses would not make me happy, while creating (what I consider to be) well-crafted artworks does, by manifesting beauty in the world.

I also note that the right to pursue happiness does not automatically presume a right to be happy. So, what would be your prescription as to the best way to pursue happiness, and the best way to achieve it?

Best wishes, 2RM.

"Happiness is a butterfly, which when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you." - Nathaniel Hawthorne