"Meeting the Lord in the air"

[Elijah John]

I heard a preacher this morning critiquing the world, (and yes, there are some very real problems in our world, moral and otherwise) and promising that there is hope because the "true believers" in Jesus will soon be raptured up to "meet the Lord in the air". He shouted this in an ecstatic tone of voice, whipping the flock into frenzied applause.

It reminded me of those minor and odd sects that one hears about in the headlines from time to time, what some people may call "cults"?

I think if I had been a visitor to this congregation, (instead of watching it on TV) I would have experienced a little fear. And moreso because in the US, this kind of teaching and preaching is becoming more and more popular, and not confined to the margins.

=Is this kind of preaching and congregation response, an example of what psychologists would call a form of "mob mentality"?

-Why don't mainline Churches, such as the RCC, Orthodox, mainline Protestant, Episcopalian, Anglican etc, churches teach the "Rapture"?

Could it be they put a bit more emphasis on rationality in their approach?

Or are those mainline Churches simply delinquent from "true" Christianity?

And finally, Does this kind of preaching, and this kind of doctrine make the borderline skeptic more or less likely to believe in God?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 4 by imhereforyou]

"Mainline" meaning Trintarian Christian, non-Evangelical/Fundamentalist. Such as the RCC, Eastern Orthodox, Episcopalian/Anglican, Methodist, etc.

Growing up Catholic, if the Rapture was ever taught, I sure don't remember it, and it was not emphasized.

Nor was it taught to my Episcopalian friends and family.

What exactly are you meaning, on this thread, by "the rapture"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]

Let me put it this way, how important do you think it is that folks believe in the "Rapture", literally?

Essential for salvation?

Does not asking this confirm that this thread belongs in the Theology subforum?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 4 by imhereforyou]

"Mainline" meaning Trintarian Christian, non-Evangelical/Fundamentalist. Such as the RCC, Eastern Orthodox, Episcopalian/Anglican, Methodist, etc.

Growing up Catholic, if the Rapture was ever taught, I sure don't remember it, and it was not emphasized.

Nor was it taught to my Episcopalian friends and family.

What exactly are you meaning, on this thread, by "the rapture"?

The title says it, from the quoted verse from Paul. "Meeting the Lord (Jesus) in the air" when he returns,( and since this is C and A,... IF, not when he returns) and leaving the "lost" behind, to suffer earth. "Left Behind" kind of thing.

The OP takes the position that nonsense doctrines such as this are some of the very things that keep-would be believers away from embracing God and Christ. There are others as well, but I ask if this doctrine is essential or not to being a "true believer" because if it is peripheral and not essential, it is needlessly divisive.*

Just as some groups forbid the celebration of birthdays.*

The questions, challenges and defense of Evangelical Chrisitian orthodoxy are covered under the umbrella of "Apologetics" and so the topic does have a place on thiis forum.

-----

* Such strange doctrines have nothing to do with love of God and neighbor, which is the essence of true religion, and the essence of what Jesus taught.

[tam]

Peace to you EJ,

What historia wrote here is what I have understood also about the 'rapture':

But Christians have historically interpreted 1 Thess. 4:16-17 as describing an event at the Second Coming, in which believers meet Christ in the air as he returns to the Earth.

I have read some of the Left Behind series, but I could not make it past the first couple books.




Peace again to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Elijah John]

Peace to you EJ,

What historia wrote here is what I have understood also about the 'rapture':

But Christians have historically interpreted 1 Thess. 4:16-17 as describing an event at the Second Coming, in which believers meet Christ in the air as he returns to the Earth.

I have read some of the Left Behind series, but I could not make it past the first couple books.




Peace again to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

The mainline Christian churches also teach the 2nd coming, but do not take the "meeting Jesus in the air" stuff literally. The "2nd" coming is part of their Creeds.

They may believe in the "Rapture" (if it means the 2nd coming), but they don't emphsize it, speculate about the details, or gloat about those "Left Behind".

The Creedal churces don't go too far beyond, "he will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end".

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]

Let me put it this way, how important do you think it is that folks believe in the "Rapture", literally?

Essential for salvation?

It is of no importance in the scheme of things, just a mere detail, as such.

However, te return of Christ probably is close to being, or actually is, an essential expectation.

[Checkpoint]

1 Thessalonians 4.17

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We Jehovah's Witnesses interpret these words to refer to have happened invisibly in the spirit realm in 1914.

We don't believe in a "rapture" per se where humans will be taken bodily into heaven in some future event.


JW

Why did it happen invisibly?

Are those it happened to now "in the air" with the Lord? If not, where are they?

Just who did it happen to in 1914?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 9 by Elijah John]

Was Paul consciously writing for posterity, or for his contemoraries? If the latter, clearly Paul was wrong, as no one has been" caught up together ...to meet the Lord in the air".

If the former, then why does Paul use the present "we which are alive" instead of "those who are alive when the Lord descends".

Seems Paul, like the Evangelist Matthew's Jesus, expected Jesus to return in the lifetime of his apostles.

Paul was writing for his contemporaries. He surely would have had no idea what he was writing would become an integral part of what we see as NT scripture.

Yes, he "was wrong" in this letter in assuming the return would be in his lifetime, just as the early church was. Later letters indicate he realised that.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 17 by Checkpoint]

1 Thessalonians 4.17

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We Jehovah's Witnesses interpret these words to refer to have happened invisibly in the spirit realm in 1914.

We don't believe in a "rapture" per se where humans will be taken bodily into heaven in some future event.


JW

Why did it happen invisibly?

• For the same reason all heavenly events happen "invisibly", namely because these things are in a non-physical (non carbon based) supernatural dimension that cannot be detected by physical beings.

Are those it happened to now "in the air" with the Lord? If not, where are they?

• We believe that when Paul spoke about meeting Christ "in the air" he wasn't speaking literally that the event would happen suspended in oxygen but that it was a metaphor for the heavenly realm.

Just who did it happen to in 1914?

• All spirit anointed born again Christians that had died prior to that point.

JW


RELATED POSTS
RELATED POSTS

What did Jesus mean when he said certain individuals will meet the Lord "in the air"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 14#p917314

Does Paul's commentary above (1 Cor 15: 51-52; 1 Thess 4:13) indicate he believed that first century Christians would not die before christ's return?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 14#p752214

Does Paul means words that some will not "fall asleep in death" mean some people will never die?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 92#p917392

When do spirit anointed "born again" Christians join Christ in heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 95#p917395

Does the first resurrection happe before or after the Great Tribulation?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 3#p1011353

Further reading
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989259

[tam]

Peace to you EJ,

What historia wrote here is what I have understood also about the 'rapture':

But Christians have historically interpreted 1 Thess. 4:16-17 as describing an event at the Second Coming, in which believers meet Christ in the air as he returns to the Earth.

I have read some of the Left Behind series, but I could not make it past the first couple books.




Peace again to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

The mainline Christian churches also teach the 2nd coming, but do not take the "meeting Jesus in the air" stuff literally.

Why not?



Peace again to you.