The Tree of Life and the Seed of Abraham

[Tart]

"The Tree of Life" is referenced many times in the Bible. There are references to trees throughout the Bible, and indeed this is what we see from nature all along. A seed sprouting into a tree, that IS life.

The entire Bible has reflection on this kind of natural order in life. The tree representing life itself. See for life was built on our families, it was built upon our ancestors. Where our roots are our fathers. Those same people who bore children. And in fact, we even see this with the patriarchates, the seeds that biult humanity...


Becuase that is literally what it is. Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, have a living line that gave population to the world. This is our father... our world is built upon seeds of men. And thats no surprise, because without seeds like Abraham, there would be no life.

And so the Bible reflects that. They say the seed of Abraham is like the root of the tree, and even use figurative speech like...

Warning to the seed of Abraham.
"9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."(Matthew 3)

There is also references to Jesus in this manner "He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground." (Isaiah 53:2)

The references are many. And it paints this picture, of our fathers and there seed brought into life. That we are shoots led by Jesus. The "tender shoot"... And our life is built upon this...


Like in a literal sense too... See the Jews documented all there seeds. The have some of the most detailed documents of all time when they documented there genealogy... They also had some of the most detailed documents on the law, their societies, their wars, etc... And it was Israel that led our world from the Old Covenant. They did it right up to the prophecies Messiah, who goes before all of us, straight up.


Its just soo interesting studying the process, like in the first century. Its astonishing that the documents (the most detailed documents in the world) . The documents of our living ancestors who brought life to the world, were destroyed at exactly the same time the New Covenant, and this entire new line of documents started.... A new life line, on the tender shoot... This paints a picture of a tree of life. And now? Our most detailed documents of our life. Where our laws come from, our ethics, the temple and its cornerstone, these new documents can be traced all the way back from right now, to when the Temple of the Old Documents was destroyed, 70Ad..


It is really quite astonishing... This is destiny, and a fulfillment of life. The Tree of Life...


Sorry, there is no debate that i can see, just the way it is. (feel free to move this to random ramblings)

Unless anyone would like to discuss this parable of the tree

[Tart]

[Replying to post 6 by Tart]

Considering the family tree is a myth, that is something!

You'll notice about that time the life-spans, or number of years on Earth become mortal numbers.
That's because that is where they went from being "gods" to being men.
Before this bit was glossed over.

A clue is in the name Israel. If we break it down we get "I" "Sra" "el," which translates to I = from, Sra = Sarah, el = god.
Israel means "from the goddess Sarah," or Asherah HSHRH.

I'd love to see this evidence that Abraham really did exist.

You always have the most wild claims to pronunciation of words... The word "Israel" in Hebrew means "Those who struggle with God".... You are full of conspiracy against the Truth...

The evidence Abraham exists is the Israelite's. They exist, and they had a foundation, they had source.. All the way down to the 12 tribes of Israel, which was built upon the 12 great-grandsons of Abraham... I mean, what reasons do we have that this isnt true?

Do you have an alternative source for the twelve tribes of Israel?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 11 by Tart]

Dude, that's the claim being challenged:
Israel did not exist as the culture you are thinking of until the second century CE, beginning in about the 2nd century BCE.

It is always funny to me how people just swallow these ungrammatical translations of Hebrew names.
Propose some grammar by which anyone could get "Those who struggle with God," from Israel. It has three syllables, and therefore a maximum of three words.

Or don't you think a people who would lie about God, would re-arrange their language to suit?

My translation comes from Canaan, or ancient Hebrew, as it is sometimes bastardized.

You see, "Israel" as you believe - as the OT depicts it, DIDN'T REALLY EXIST.
It's a fiction.

Otherwise please give some histories of this great nation.
You'll find they begin with the Seleucid Empire's end.

Or maybe you remember your ancient history from school, and how Israeli history never made it to the quiz

But go ahead, show me Israel in the history books.

[Tart]

[Replying to post 11 by Tart]

Dude, that's the claim being challenged:
Israel did not exist as the culture you are thinking of until the second century CE, beginning in about the 2nd century BCE.

It is always funny to me how people just swallow these ungrammatical translations of Hebrew names.
Propose some grammar by which anyone could get "Those who struggle with God," from Israel. It has three syllables, and therefore a maximum of three words.

Or don't you think a people who would lie about God, would re-arrange their language to suit?

My translation comes from Canaan, or ancient Hebrew, as it is sometimes bastardized.

You see, "Israel" as you believe - as the OT depicts it, DIDN'T REALLY EXIST.
It's a fiction.

Otherwise please give some histories of this great nation.
You'll find they begin with the Seleucid Empire's end.

Or maybe you remember your ancient history from school, and how Israeli history never made it to the quiz

But go ahead, show me Israel in the history books.

How do you know that Israel is fiction? It came from the 2nd century BC? Where is your evidence?


So here is an artifact from the 9th century BC, from around the same time David, and the house of David existed...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stele

How do you reconcile that with a fictional house of David?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 13 by Tart]

One artifact vs. entire civilizations?
One word that might be on a decayed scroll proves civilizations?

Seleucids
You can look up all the places the Jews were supposed to be, and find that the weren't there anytime in history.
Egypt is just one example.
The Holy land is another.

Jews did not become monotheistic as a whole until 2nd century CE. After Christianity.
How does that work out?

Anyway, with history becoming more and easily available, the myths are fading away.

[marco]

Sorry, there is no debate that i can see, just the way it is. (feel free to move this to random ramblings)

Unless anyone would like to discuss this parable of the tree

Abraham may or may not have been the brute he is portrayed to be; he's maybe some fictitious nomad. Perhaps some of the killers in today's society do indeed have his coldness in their genes - who knows? As for the Tree of Life, you may not know that Yggdrasil binds earth, heaven and hell together, in Norse mythology.

Amazingly man has visited the moon goddess. Why then do we want to gaze with wonder on savages from the deep past, savages that may well be the products of savage imaginations. They have no relevance to us unless we observe many have escaped the malign influence they used to have.

[FarWanderer]

Amazingly man has visited the moon goddess. Why then do we want to gaze with wonder on savages from the deep past, savages that may well be the products of savage imaginations. They have no relevance to us unless we observe many have escaped the malign influence they used to have.

This strikes me as arrogant. We're talking about our cultural and literal ancestors who, as "savage" as they may have been, laid the first stones of our civilization.

A formalized code of laws is a far greater miracle than a visit to the Moon.

[marco]

Amazingly man has visited the moon goddess. Why then do we want to gaze with wonder on savages from the deep past, savages that may well be the products of savage imaginations. They have no relevance to us unless we observe many have escaped the malign influence they used to have.

This strikes me as arrogant. We're talking about our cultural and literal ancestors who, as "savage" as they may have been, laid the first stones of our civilization.

A formalized code of laws is a far greater miracle than a visit to the Moon.

Of course we are the product of ancient civilisations; there's no miracle in this. When Muhammad suggested it's not terribly nice to bury baby girls alive he was perhaps miraculously advancing his listeners. Telling them that beautiful women waited them when they were corpses pushed advancemeent back again. Muhammad is simply a continuation of the Abrahamic tree.

It has taken us centuries to reccover from biblical nonsense and superstition; people have been murdered in the meantime beecause of the miraculous rules you extol.

Let us praise Alexander for his conquests; Greek philosophers for their wisdom; and monks for preserving classical learning despite restrictions. We are lucky that SOME literature survived Church superstition.

[bluethread]

It is always funny to me how people just swallow these ungrammatical translations of Hebrew names.
Propose some grammar by which anyone could get "Those who struggle with God," from Israel. It has three syllables, and therefore a maximum of three words.

It is true that Isra is a form of the term Sarah. However, that term means to contend with. Asherah is a homonym because it refers to the Cannanite deity with power(sarah) over the water, i.e. fertility. However, that does not mean that the use of the root in Israel and Asherah, makes them synonyms. Homonym equals synonym is a common sophists fallacy. Though one can make connections based on homonyms, root meaning is the stronger of the interpretive tools. That combined with the meaning of Yacov(to grab the heel) and the context of the passage, (Gen. 32:28) "And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.", strongly suggests that he name of Israel has nothing to do with Asherah.

[bluethread]

A formalized code of laws is a far greater miracle than a visit to the Moon.

Let us praise Alexander for his conquests; Greek philosophers for their wisdom; and monks for preserving classical learning despite restrictions. We are lucky that SOME literature survived Church superstition.

This feud between the Eastern Constitutionalists and the Hellenistic Rationalists has raged ever since the time they first interacted with one another. Suffice it to say that human existence has not followed a singular line of development. Both the Hebraic development of Constitutionalism and the Greek development of Rationalism have combined to create what we now know as the Constitutional Republic. I contend that is why the rational shul of rabbinics has generally prevailed over they mystical shuls. That said, it is not helpful to totally reject the effect of the mystical archetype and meta-story on society.

[marco]

That said, it is not helpful to totally reject the effect of the mystical archetype and meta-story on society.

We take our lessons from where we can get them. I think it was Cervantes who observed that no book is so bad you can learn nothing from it. Perhaps the Bible is the exception..... but joking apart, we can take lessons even if it is in how not to do something.

In this respect perhaps Abraham has a lot to show us - all negative of course.