This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,� they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?�

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days


“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 385 by Checkpoint]

However the topic specified for this thread is: who is "this generation?"

Not to forget this part also:
What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?"
If the anonymous author(s) attributing those words to Jesus meant anything other than what we understand as a normal generation I think they would have said so. The failure of this forecast has led to creative interpretation in order to somehow legitimise this great faux pas.

It is not about the authors but about what and who they reported.

There was no faux pa.

"what we understand as a normal generation" does not match the multiple usage by Jesus of the word "generation"

[marco]

There was no faux pa.

"what we understand as a normal generation" does not match the multiple usage by Jesus of the word "generation"

It was a mistake made by Christ who was not endowed with knowledge of a future world where he could have skyped and telephoned and flew to meet millions across the globe. He had a generous supply of hopefulness and a profound belief in his rightness and in his celestial guidance. His words, addressed to unsophisticated people, indubitably say he'll be back soon. His words, refined by modern believers, can mean what anyone wants them to mean.

The discussion on the possible interpretations of "generation" would be appropriate if we were dealing with a literary thesis rather than a spoken statement addressed to semi-superstitious folk. "I will be back before some of you die" is clear. To generate a second meaning we have to grant "be back soon" a meaning that nobody would pick up on hearing it. If we give Jesus the benefit of intellectuality and refined eloquence, then he must have been aware his words would be misinterpreted, if he meant what some are suggesting here; in which case he was effectively being duplicitous in suggesting an obvious thing while meaning something else.

If he was unaware, then indeed he committed a faux pas.

[polonius]

JW posted:

It might be an idea to return to the topic at hand.

RESPONSE: OK. Lets do that.
Summarizing,

Jesus says he will return. He than says he will return during the lives of “some of those standing here.� He tells his apostles that if they spread his teaching in Israel, they will not have gone through all the towns before he returns. Jesus tells the High priest that he will see Jesus returning in glory evidently during is life time. In 1 Thessalonians Paul too says that Jesus will return during his generation.

But none of this has happened. Jesus was wrong.

That is your chosen topic, and your take.

However the topic specified for this thread is: who is "this generation?"

RESPONSE: The three statements, (1) this generation, (2) you will have not gone through all the towns of Israel and the statement to the high priest that (3) he would see the second coming leaves no reasonable doubt about what Christ said or meant.

Of course rather than admit that Jesus was in error, some try to argue (irrationally) that Jesus really meant something else. But given the plain meaning of the words Jesus used, that's not reasonable.

[JehovahsWitness]

The discussion on the possible interpretations of "generation" would be appropriate if we were dealing with a literary thesis rather than a spoken statement addressed to semi-superstitious folk.

A spoken statement that was written down.

So would it be fair to say, your position is, we shouldn't analyse the words in the text (since the gospels should be approached with a predetermined bias that it is below the required standard of what should be considered worthy of such an endeavour); and without any analysis of the words, we should decide the words convey an inaccurate idea?

A conclusion which of course cannot be challenged without an analysis of the words.

Which should not be endeavoured as it has already been decided that would be a waste of time.

Because it originated with "semi-superstitious folk." (religious?)

Folk that could be vindicated if we analysed their work

Which we won't do because.. well their work isn't worthy of the endeavour.

Repeat and spin.

Does that about sum up your point?

[shnarkle]

Intentionally ignoring God's celebrations seems more like open defiant rebellion, no?

Of course, which is why I would never do such a thing.

Of course you would.

You are not in a position to tell me what I would or would not do. Kindly keep your opinions about how I live my life or what I would do in it to yourself. It might be an idea to return to the topic at hand.


Good day to you,

JW

As I've already pointed out, Jehovah's celebrations are clearly not kept by any Christian denominations, therefore, as an admitted member of a Christian denomination, you clearly do not keep any of those celebrations, and openly have admitted as much already. Just as important is the fact that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses openly admits that they no longer need to keep any of Jehovah's Feast Days. I am only agreeing with what you've already admitted yourself. The fact that I am pointing out a contradiction on your part is not only allowed in a debate group, but necessasrily an integral part of debate.

Furthermore, I never made any claims to how you live your life. Given that the topic at hand is the second coming, and I've simply pointed out what all bibles plainly state; namely that those who refuse to keep Jehovah's feast day will undergo a serious smiting, and asking for some explanation as to why all Christians don't seem to see the cognitive dissonance in their insistence on ignoring Jehovah's Feast Day.

Of course I'm not asking you to speak for all Christians, but given that you are a Christian, or at least claim to be one, you can speak for yourself. My intention was not to offend, and I see nothing offensive in the question to begin with. Regardless, given that you have chosen to be offended, i understand your decision to refrain from answering the question.

Let's not pretend that you didn't just admit that you would never do such a thing, as if I'm supposed to ignore your own statements presented for debate. If you didn't want to debate the issue, why are you presenting them in the first place?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 370 by polonius]

Is it possible that they are writing clearly but not what you want to hear?

In many such cases the reader cannot be helped irrespective of overwhelming evidence presented by the author.

Anything is possible.

I think this is a valid point. The intentions of the author must be taken into account to accurately understand any text. My belief is that the terms Jesus is recorded as using indicate what period he was referring to.


JW

[marco]

So would it be fair to say, your position is, we shouldn't analyse the words in the text (since the gospels should be approached with a predetermined bias that it is below the required standard of what should be considered worthy of such an endeavour); and without any analysis of the words, we should decide the words convey an inaccurate idea?

It is best to comment on what I have said rather than guess what might be lurking in the corners of my mind. I make no prescriptions about what "we" should not do. My goodness, we are supposed to be discussing Jesus not Marco.

Does that about sum up your point?

It does not resemble anything relevant to what I opined. Best comment on my statements rather than my supposed thoughts. Even I have difficulty sometimes venturing into the caverns of my sub-consciousness so I can't see others succeeding.
Thanks for trying.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 393 by marco]

My apologies I see that my comment was totally inappropriate I was wrong to write what I did and humbly beg your pardon. I will take on board what you said. I reproached someone for doing something similar and then turned around and did the exact same thing to you. My bad!

Again, Marco, I was wrong I see that now and I apologise.



Be Well,

JW

[marco]

[Replying to post 393 by marco]

My apologies I see that my comment was totally inappropriate I was wrong to write what I did and humbly beg your pardon. I will take on board what you said. I reproached someone for doing something similar and then turned around and did the exact same thing to you. My bad!

Again, Marco, I was wrong I see that now and I apologise.

No need to apologise, JW, but it is very gracious of you. Such gestures make debate all the more pleasant. I thank you for your courtesy. Go well.

[Checkpoint]

JW posted:

It might be an idea to return to the topic at hand.

RESPONSE: OK. Lets do that.
Summarizing,
././././
Jesus says he will return. He than says he will return during the lives of “some of those standing here.� He tells his apostles that if they spread his teaching in Israel, they will not have gone through all the towns before he returns. Jesus tells the High priest that he will see Jesus returning in glory evidently during is life time. In 1 Thessalonians Paul too says that Jesus will return during his generation.

But none of this has happened. Jesus was wrong.

That is your chosen topic, and your take.

However the topic specified for this thread is: who is "this generation?"

RESPONSE: The three statements, (1) this generation, (2) you will have not gone through all the towns of Israel and the statement to the high priest that (3) he would see the second coming leaves no reasonable doubt about what Christ said or meant.

Of course rather than admit that Jesus was in error, some try to argue (irrationally) that Jesus really meant something else. But given the plain meaning of the words Jesus used, that's not reasonable.

Reasonable?

Seemingly, yet only your (1) specifically uses " generation".

You use the other two as proof of your already assumed and therefore unproven meaning.

The "plain meaning" is only found by a study of the many times Jesus actually used the word "generation".