This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

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Overcomer
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This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

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Post by Overcomer »

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,� they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?�

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days


“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

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Post #231

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote:
What becomes of those humans who are not judged by God to be "meek"
Jesus answered that question, see below


JOHN 3:16
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. - NWT



RELATED POSTS


Further reading: What is the battle of Armageddon?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... rmageddon/

Why does God fight the war of Armageddon?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 946#931946

Armageddon: Questions & Answers
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 178#917178

What do Jehovah's Witnesss encourage non-Witnesses that want to survive Armageddon to do?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 292#865292
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #232

Post by myth-one.com »

One of these events is that the gospel must be preached to all mankind in all the nations:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)
[quote="="JehovahWitness""]Well I can confirm as one of Jehovah's Witnesses that we have indeed preached the good news in every nation so we can expect the end any time soon.




myth-one.com wrote:Best as I can tell, the Jehovahs Witness spread the good news as follows:

All earthly governments will be replaced with The Kingdom of God government and its subjects will enjoy peace and good health forever.

Is that basically correct?
JehovahsWitness wrote:Yes, that is what we believe.



God wants people to enjoy life on earth. He created the earth and everything on it because he loves mankind. Soon he will act to provide a better future for people in every land. He will relieve mankind of the causes of suffering.—Read Jeremiah 29:11.
No government has ever succeeded in eliminating violence, disease, or death. But there is good news. Shortly, God will replace all human governments with his own government. Its subjects will enjoy peace and good health.—Read Isaiah 25:8; 33:24; Daniel 2:44.

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Post #233

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

"Naturally there will be no atheists..."

There will be atheists until humans go extinct.

Unless another species develops the ability to believe in mythological beings, this event will result in the end of both theists and atheists.

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Post #234

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to post 229 by Tcg]

You are correct. There will be atheist until every knee will bow and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father.

So when you see
For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away[a] and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Abomination of Desolation
15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
So when you see these things happen you will know that the day of the Lord will happen in that generation.

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Post #235

Post by tam »

Peace to you all!

Tcg wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:All earthly governments will be replaced with The Kingdom of God government and its subjects will enjoy peace and good health forever.

Is that basically correct?
JehovahsWitness wrote:Yes, that is what we believe.
myth-one.com wrote:..., who will be included as subjects in the Kingdom of God on earth?
JehovahsWitness wrote:All those that God judges as "meek". Jesus said "The meek will inherit the earth".
So meek atheists may inherit the Kingdom of God on the earth?
Yes. According to the Pope, they can. I wonder, though.
Who doesn't wonder? The Bible itself doesn't make it clear. Is it based on belief as the unknown author of the gospel of John claims? Perhaps on works as the author of James claims. Meekness as JW claims?
Based upon how they have treated Christ. They do not have to have believed in Him to have treated Him good or bad. Because whatever a person does (or does not do) for even a least one of His brothers and sisters, one does (or does not do) for Him.


Matthew 25:31-46 (the parable of the sheep and the goats)

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne."

So this is speaking of Christ's return. When He returns:

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

The nations are all the people on earth who are alive at His return. Please note that my Lord does not kill any of them. He separates them, places the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.

To the sheep, the ones who are invited into the Kingdom, Christ says:


“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’



Many people assume incorrectly that the sheep in this parable are Christians. But Christians are brothers and sisters of Christ. The sheep and the goats did (or did not do) for even the least of the brothers and sisters of Christ. The sheep and the goats are not themselves the brothers and sisters of Christ.

The sheep are those people alive at the time Christ returns - who are not Christian - but who have done good to Christ, having done good to even a least one of His brothers.

These people (who are not Christian) DO BY NATURE the things required by the law (of love); therefore, they prove that the requirements of the law (of love) is written upon their hearts by what they DO. They are a law unto themselves. Paul speaks about them here:

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. Romans 2:13-15



Continuing with the parable of the sheep and the goats:


“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’


“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.�


The goats are cast out of the Kingdom and the sheep are invited into the Kingdom. Christ does not kill anyone. He separates them, and invites the sheep IN to the Kingdom while casting the goats OUT and away from Him, into the darkness that is outside the Kingdom (and eventually their place will be in the lake of fire - which means the second - and eternal - death).




So yes, non-Christians (including atheists) can and will be invited into the Kingdom. MERCY is shown them as well. They are not the Bride, and so they do not reign as kings and priests with Christ for the thousand years. They are the subjects of the Kingdom, and they too receive eternal life, and healing, and the promises of no more mourning or tears, etc.


Sounds awesome and merciful and loving to me.


Peace again to you all, and to your households,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Post #236

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to post 231 by tam]

Very interesting post, with some unusual ideas that seem to be a good way to apply the verses quoted.

However, I found two aspects that I suggest probably need clarification or adjustment.
The nations are all the people on earth who are alive at His return. Please note that my Lord does not kill any of them. He separates them, places the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.
I understand "the nations" here to be all non-Christians, both alive then and dead then, from all human history.
The goats are cast out of the Kingdom and the sheep are invited into the Kingdom. Christ does not kill anyone. He separates them, and invites the sheep IN to the Kingdom while casting the goats OUT and away from Him, into the darkness that is outside the Kingdom (and eventually their place will be in the lake of fire - which means the second - and eternal - death).
My take on this is that to be cast out is to be killed, resulting in the second death, and to be "in the darkness outside" is the "eternal punishment" mentioned, the second death itself.

God bless you and yours.

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Post #237

Post by polonius »

RESPONSE

Aren't many of these posts confusing scripture involving the Second Coming and End times. These a very different issues.

Jesus claimed that he second coming would occur during the lifetime of many of those then alive.

Jesus claimed that not even he knew when end times would occur "...not the angels in heaven or even the Son but the Father only..." or words to that effect.

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Post #238

Post by tam »

Peace to you!
Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 231 by tam]

Very interesting post, with some unusual ideas that seem to be a good way to apply the verses quoted.

However, I found two aspects that I suggest probably need clarification or adjustment.
Okay, I will try to clarify.
The nations are all the people on earth who are alive at His return. Please note that my Lord does not kill any of them. He separates them, places the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.
I understand "the nations" here to be all non-Christians, both alive then and dead then, from all human history.
Ah.

The dead (non-Christians dead) are not resurrected until the second resurrection. The second resurrection - the resurrection of the dead - occurs at the end of the "thousand years".

Rev 20:4-6

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.


That is the first resurrection (Paul speaks about this 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 and 1Thessalonians 4:15-17, and he also describes the 'change' that occurs with those Christians who are still alive at the time).


Continuing...


(The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were ended.)


The first resurrection is for Christians. The second resurrection is for everyone else (the dead, great and small Rev 20:11-13) and it does not occur until the thousand years are ended.


This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.


This again (as it states) is speaking of the first resurrection which comes at the start of the thousand years; then the second resurrection (of the dead) does not occur until after the thousand years are ended.

The goats are cast out of the Kingdom and the sheep are invited into the Kingdom. Christ does not kill anyone. He separates them, and invites the sheep IN to the Kingdom while casting the goats OUT and away from Him, into the darkness that is outside the Kingdom (and eventually their place will be in the lake of fire - which means the second - and eternal - death).
My take on this is that to be cast out is to be killed, resulting in the second death, and to be "in the darkness outside" is the "eternal punishment" mentioned, the second death itself.
The outer darkness cannot be the lake of fire for a couple of reasons. One, you stated already: the lake of fire is the second death. There is no weeping or gnashing of teeth in death, but there is weeping and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness. The outer darkness is outside of the Kingdom.


More than that though, remember that at the end of the "thousand years", Satan is released from his prison and then goes out to deceive people on the earth, into coming against the people and city God loves. The people on the earth that Satan deceives into launching this attack are the people (goats) living outside the Kingdom.


When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. Rev 20:7-9


That is the actual war of God and it does not occur until the END of the thousand years.

God bless you and yours.
Thank you and I hope the above helps!

Peace also to you, and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Post #239

Post by tam »

polonius wrote: RESPONSE

Aren't many of these posts confusing scripture involving the Second Coming and End times. These a very different issues.

Jesus claimed that he second coming would occur during the lifetime of many of those then alive.

Jesus claimed that not even he knew when end times would occur "...not the angels in heaven or even the Son but the Father only..." or words to that effect.

Christ is referring to His return in that quote:

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. Matt 24:36-44


Not even He knew that day or hour.


Peace to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Post #240

Post by Checkpoint »

polonius wrote: RESPONSE

Aren't many of these posts confusing scripture involving the Second Coming and End times. These a very different issues.

Jesus claimed that he second coming would occur during the lifetime of many of those then alive.

Jesus claimed that not even he knew when end times would occur "...not the angels in heaven or even the Son but the Father only..." or words to that effect.
We need to discern just what is what, the whens and the hows, as best we can.

Refusal to accept that "generation" has more than one meaning ensures the confusion continues.

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