This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,� they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?�

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days


“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 291 by marco]

What a world we would have if truth came through declaration.

None of the declarations in your post are truth, but merely your take and your version of what and why Jesus said what is recorded.

We must agree to differ, Checkpoint.

Of course, Marco.

One of us is a believer and the other one is not a believer.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 291 by marco]

What a world we would have if truth came through declaration.

None of the declarations in your post are truth, but merely your take and your version of what and why Jesus said what is recorded.

We must agree to differ, Checkpoint.

Of course, Marco.

One of us is a believer and the other one is not a believer.

RESPONSE:

Then it logically follows that one of you is right and one of you is wrong!

[tam]

Peace to you all,

From the Psalms (14:5, for context):


5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.




Even in the OT, generation is used to denote 'kind' instead of 'time'.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[marco]

Peace to you all,

From the Psalms (14:5, for context):


5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.




Even in the OT, generation is used to denote 'kind' instead of 'time'.

The word of course relates to type or kind. The nuisance is the demonstrative adjective "this" and it is "this" that offers us a meaning. Had he said the generation of the wicked we would have deduced a meaning. Given "this" - interpretations other than one that relates the generation to his listeners are simply incorrect, however ingeniously they are summoned up.

[tam]

Peace to you Marco,

Peace to you all,

From the Psalms (14:5, for context):


5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.




Even in the OT, generation is used to denote 'kind' instead of 'time'.

The word of course relates to type or kind. The nuisance is the demonstrative adjective "this" and it is "this" that offers us a meaning. Had he said the generation of the wicked we would have deduced a meaning. Given "this" - interpretations other than one that relates the generation to his listeners are simply incorrect, however ingeniously they are summoned up.

He was indeed speaking to His disciples; they were indeed part of 'this' generation; the generation of people whom Christ makes into sons and daughters for God; all having the same father.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[marco]

He was indeed speaking to His disciples; they were indeed part of 'this' generation; the generation of people whom Christ makes into sons and daughters for God; all having the same father.

That would mean "this generation" - as opposed to that one or the next one - is the full range of created humanity. Had Christ intended this generality of meaning he would better have said: mankind. The use of this implies a "not this" - and it's hard to see what this might be.

Again the simple interpretation makes more sense.

[tam]

Peace to you Marco,

He was indeed speaking to His disciples; they were indeed part of 'this' generation; the generation of people whom Christ makes into sons and daughters for God; all having the same father.

That would mean "this generation" - as opposed to that one or the next one - is the full range of created humanity. Had Christ intended this generality of meaning he would better have said: mankind. The use of this implies a "not this" - and it's hard to see what this might be.

Again the simple interpretation makes more sense.

I forget that people teach that God is the father of all men; but that is not a true teaching. If we were all sons already, then we would not need to be given the right to become sons.


But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. John 1:12



So 'this generation' is not referring to all of mankind.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[marco]

I forget that people teach that God is the father of all men; but that is not a true teaching. If we were all sons already, then we would not need to be given the right to become sons.

So 'this generation' is not referring to all of mankind.

That simply adds another layer of confusion to an apparently simple statement. I accept we must try everything to get Christ's meaning, but introducing into "this generation" an entire theology about who are sons and who aren't, is surely a bridge too far.


Still, even with your suggestion, it could mean that the new believers (his converted generation) will still be around when these things happen - that is, within the lifetime of some of his adherents. He said something similar elsewhere.

[tam]

I forget that people teach that God is the father of all men; but that is not a true teaching. If we were all sons already, then we would not need to be given the right to become sons.

So 'this generation' is not referring to all of mankind.

That simply adds another layer of confusion to an apparently simple statement. I accept we must try everything to get Christ's meaning, but introducing into "this generation" an entire theology about who are sons and who aren't, is surely a bridge too far.

I'm not sure I understand what is confusing about this.

Christ is obviously speaking about a specific generation. You (and others) suggest that He means 'generation' as in a forty year time period (or something similar). But you find it too hard to accept that He could mean a kind of people; such as those generated by Him to be sons of God.

Still, even with your suggestion, it could mean that the new believers (his converted generation) will still be around when these things happen - that is, within the lifetime of some of his adherents. He said something similar elsewhere.

I am one of His adherents. I am still alive. Even if I die before He returns, one of my brothers or sisters (born now or yet to be born) will still be alive when He returns.

We (and so "this generation") will still be here when He returns; we will not have passed away or been wiped out before He returns.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[marco]

I'm not sure I understand what is confusing about this.

Christ is obviously speaking about a specific generation. You (and others) suggest that He means 'generation' as in a forty year time period (or something similar). But you find it too hard to accept that He could mean a kind of people; such as those generated by Him to be sons of God.

My interpretation has meaning; an interpretation that involves thinking of a line of people extending for millennia carries little sense. What has the line of believers to do with the prediction? Or with his listeners?

I am one of His adherents. I am still alive. Even if I die before He returns, one of my brothers or sisters (born now or yet to be born) will still be alive when He returns.

Yes, all Christians believe they are followers of Christ, whether they are or not. So this statement looks like a statement about the endurance of Christian belief. Then if Christ returns in 20,000 years there will still be Christians. Of some sort! Well I confess that were I pressed to find this meaning I would be sitting for a long time. So when the last Christian disappears someone can then say Christ got it wrong. We must wait a bit longer then.