This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,� they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?�

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days


“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[Checkpoint]

Your "neither" answer seems to differ from your subsequent explanation.

As Buttercup said in HMS Pinafore: "Things are seldom what they seem.

Indeed. My position reflects that, as does Jesus so many times.

Of course much of what Christ said differs, sometimes violently, from what his later devotees practised.

If Christ was addressing living folk, one would expect his words to have some relevance to them and their time. We have had extreme wickedness throughout history. What particular wickedness is Jesus referring to when he says: "O generation of vipers!" Those who disagree with him?

He addressed living folk, some of whom were part of the "generation of vipers" as described in Matthew 23 and Proverbs 30:11-14.

Is that so bad? He's a man driven by his singular idea that he's divinely chosen, as were some English monarchs.

It was a curse and a blessing.

Who he was is a blessing for some and a curse for others.

We are free to accept or reject him, and to change that choice.

[Revelations won]

When considering the final statement or question in the OP, we should not overlook the doctrine of "translated beings" or persons who have not experienced death, such as:

John the beloved, or Elijah the prophet to mention a couple.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 407 by Checkpoint]
In order to accept him I'd first need to believe whatever it is that needs to be believed about him. When you all reach a consensus, let me know.

[marco]

He addressed living folk, some of whom were part of the "generation of vipers" as described in Matthew 23 and Proverbs 30:11-14.

Calling people vipers is the talk of the irate, the malcontent. What is the purpose of this cautious advice?

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be subject to the fire of hell.

Who he was is a blessing for some and a curse for others.

Isn't it the way with many folk? They are seen by some as good and by others as bad. Jesus was no different. If we find he is unconvincing, it is not a choice but a duty to reject him.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 398 by polonius]

I find the fundamentalist argument not to be creditable. It's much more credible to believe what Jesus actually said.

What specifically is this "fundamentalist argument"?

"Jesus actually said" what, specifically, about "this generation" when he used that term?

RESPONSE: The fundamentalist argument such as the one you are proposing is that Jesus used the term "generation" but not saying which generation he meant so it could be argued that it is any future generation.

But Jesus specified "THIS GENERATION" the present one to which he spoke and than gave examples.

So we have a "God breathed" scripture that is in error. There are others.

The fundamentalist view you describe is not what I have been proposing.

That is because of your assumption of your own view of what Jesus meant.

RESPONSE: Yes. I always go by the plain meaning of words as in "This generation"

And in other passages Jesus gave examples of this, like the apostles no being to go through all the towns of Israel before he returned.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 398 by polonius]

I find the fundamentalist argument not to be creditable. It's much more credible to believe what Jesus actually said.

What specifically is this "fundamentalist argument"?

"Jesus actually said" what, specifically, about "this generation" when he used that term?

RESPONSE: The fundamentalist argument such as the one you are proposing is that Jesus used the term "generation" but not saying which generation he meant so it could be argued that it is any future generation.

But Jesus specified "THIS GENERATION" the present one to which he spoke and than gave examples.

So we have a "God breathed" scripture that is in error. There are others.

The fundamentalist view you describe is not what I have been proposing.

That is because of your assumption of your own view of what Jesus meant.

RESPONSE: Yes. I always go by the plain meaning of words as in "This generation"

And in other passages Jesus gave examples of this, like the apostles no being to go through all the towns of Israel before he returned.

What is "the plain meaning" of "this temple", then, as you understand it?

In your "other passages" Jesus does not say "this generation" is what he is referring to. It is just what you have assumed.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 407 by Checkpoint]
In order to accept him I'd first need to believe whatever it is that needs to be believed about him. When you all reach a consensus, let me know.

A consensus about what?

[Checkpoint]

When considering the final statement or question in the OP, we should not overlook the doctrine of "translated beings" or persons who have not experienced death, such as:

John the beloved, or Elijah the prophet to mention a couple.

"The doctrine of translated beings"?

That has nothing to do with "this generation".

[Revelations won]

I think that Checkpoint's response is "on the mark" and is very clear. Well stated! God does not make mistakes, It is only we who fail to correctly discern His statements and works.

Perhaps it would be of great import if we had clear knowledge of the mission and mighty works which those "translated" beings were to perform in furthering God's eternal plan.

Kind regards,
RW

[polonius]

Checkpoint posted:

In your "other passages" Jesus does not say "this generation" is what he is referring to. It is just what you have assumed.

Yes, evidently both I and Jesus use the plain meaning of words.
“Some of those standing here� would be of his generation.

Matt 16:23
English Standard Version
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.�

Matt 10:23
English Standard Version
When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

1 Thessalonians 4: 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

It is always interesting to observe fundamentalist trying to argue around the plain meaning of words to support their belief system.

Still, Jesus was in error since none of this happened.