This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,� they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?�

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days


“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 415 by Revelations won]

I think that Checkpoint's response is "on the mark" and is very clear. Well stated! God does not make mistakes, It is only we who fail to correctly discern His statements and works.

Thankyou, Revelation won.

My response to what?

Your post, or to the questions the writer posed in the first post that started this thread?

[brianbbs67]

Checkpoint posted:

In your "other passages" Jesus does not say "this generation" is what he is referring to. It is just what you have assumed.

Yes, evidently both I and Jesus use the plain meaning of words.
“Some of those standing here� would be of his generation.

Matt 16:23
English Standard Version
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.�

Matt 10:23
English Standard Version
When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

1 Thessalonians 4: 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

It is always interesting to observe fundamentalist trying to argue around the plain meaning of words to support their belief system.

Still, Jesus was in error since none of this happened.

Well, technically, he did return to them after his death, thus doing that. What we await is the 3rd coming in the glory of God.

[Checkpoint]

Checkpoint posted:

In your "other passages" Jesus does not say "this generation" is what he is referring to. It is just what you have assumed.

Yes, evidently both I and Jesus use the plain meaning of words.
“Some of those standing here� would be of his generation.

Matt 16:23
English Standard Version
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.�

Matt 10:23
English Standard Version
When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

1 Thessalonians 4: 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

It is always interesting to observe fundamentalist trying to argue around the plain meaning of words to support their belief system.

Still, Jesus was in error since none of this happened.

So you keep telling us.

Full of assumptions and their conclusions.

As usual, without any idea of what "this generation" actually meant when Jesus used it.

Not too surprising though.

Verses not including even "generation", let alone "this generation", cannot fill the bill at all.

[polonius]

Checkmate says

So you keep telling us.

Full of assumptions and their conclusions.

As usual, without any idea of what "this generation" actually meant when Jesus used it.

Not too surprising though.

Verses not including even "generation", let alone "this generation", cannot fill the bill at all.

RESPONSE

Lets be reality oriented and go by the plain meaning of words.

Note carefully that Jesus specified:

Douay-Rheims Bible Matthew 16-28
Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 24:34
Douay-Rheims Bible
Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

So we know what Jesus actually meant, (to the chagrin of some fundamentalists,) Those sanding there are in Jesus’ generation not some indefinite future generation.

Apparently an example of a “God breathed “ scripture that was clearly in error.

[Checkpoint]

Checkmate says

So you keep telling us.

Full of assumptions and their conclusions.

As usual, without any idea of what "this generation" actually meant when Jesus used it.

Not too surprising though.

Verses not including even "generation", let alone "this generation", cannot fill the bill at all.

RESPONSE

Lets be reality oriented and go by the plain meaning of words.

Note carefully that Jesus specified:

Douay-Rheims Bible Matthew 16-28
Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 24:34
Douay-Rheims Bible
Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

So we know what Jesus actually meant, (to the chagrin of some fundamentalists,) Those sanding there are in Jesus’ generation not some indefinite future generation.

Apparently an example of a “God breathed “ scripture that was clearly in error.

Nice one.

Same old same old that further illustrates my points.

[Revelations won]

DearCheckpoint,

When Christ spoke of "this generation", I would state that of his generation the issue of "translated beings" has everything to do with his statement. John the beloved was indeed one of those of his generation.

[polonius]

DearCheckpoint,

When Christ spoke of "this generation", I would state that of his generation the issue of "translated beings" has everything to do with his statement. John the beloved was indeed one of those of his generation.

RESPONSE: I don't understand the point you are trying to make. When was John born
and when did he die?

[John Human]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.� [snip] 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.


Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

Ancient Demon has the following to say:

Jesus was speaking of the people who listened to him. Jesus foresaw the destruction of the temple. This happened as Jesus foresaw.

Ancient Demon: http://earthwarning.org/index.php/here-be-demons/

[Checkpoint]

DearCheckpoint,

When Christ spoke of "this generation", I would state that of his generation the issue of "translated beings" has everything to do with his statement. John the beloved was indeed one of those of his generation.

He did not say "His generation" but "this generation".

That is, one that has certain characteristics not measured by time but by a mindset derived from and reflecting their father.

[peacedove]

He used the spiritual meaning to illustrate and emphasise spiritual truths.

Regarding usage and definition of the word "generation", how does one know when Jesus is using the word as commonly understood, vs. in a "spiritual" way?

Good question.

By firstly coming to understand what makes each what it is, the physical or the spiritual.

Then, having done so, examining his usage of "generation" to determine which of the two is intended.

Each generation comprises those generated by its generator...

Example's of each? And how you know the example(s) cited are one and not the other.

Sure.

Physical generations

Matthew 1:

1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.

One spiritual generation

Proverbs 30:

11 There is a generation of those who curse their fathers
and do not bless their mothers.

12 There is a generation of those who are pure in their own eyes
and yet unwashed of their filth.

13 There is a generation—how haughty are their eyes,
and pretentious are their glances—

14 There is a generation whose teeth are swords
and whose jaws are knives,
devouring the oppressed from the earth,
and the needy from among men.

Your turn!

This is a false dichotomy. There is nothing in the Proverbs passage that suggests it means something other than a temporal and natural generation, or some generations from time to time in history.

The generation referred to as 'this generation' is the generation of Deut. 32, the twisted and crooked generation, which Moses predicted would be Israel's terminal generation, the one that God foresaw 'what their end will be' and 'their latter end'.

The terminal Israeli generation would be the one who would suffer judgement: 'It is mine to avenge, I will repay' it is the one upon whom the sins of previous generations would be repaid: the sins of the generations were 'laid up in a store with me, sealed up in my treasuries.'

In the repayment of that terminal generation, would be fulfilled this prophecy:
'Rejoice, you nations, with his people,
for he will avenge the blood of his servants;
he will take vengeance on his enemies
and make atonement for his land and people.'

So, in summary, you have the avenging of the blood of the martyrs in and against the terminal generation of Israel, repaying the blood guilt that been accumulated in prior generations.

In Mat 23 this is exactly what we have: the avenging of the blood of the martyrs against Israel's terminal generation:

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’�

Note that the sin and bloodguilt has accumulated over multiple generations, but would be avenged against a single generation, at a single place, Jerusalem, and in a single event, the desolation of the Jerusalem temple in the First Century.

There can be no doubt that 'this generation' refers to a specific temporal generation, and which generation that was predicted, and that it was fulfilled in 70 A.D.

Why should chapter 24 be any different? The disciples asked 'when' and Christ assured them again it would be in their generation.

They were not asking about the nature or character of the people, they asked WHEN. Generation is a unit of time and a period of time and a duration of time.