The Christian prophecies of "the end of the age" have been with us at least as long as Christianity has haunted our dreams with visions of strange beasts and the destruction or damnation of the majority of humankind. The faithful have eagerly looked to the sky hoping to see Jesus riding in on "the clouds of heaven" to take them away while the rest of us suffer horrible punishments. But to their chagrin, it was just one disappointment after another when Jesus failed to show, and they returned to their boring little homes living out the rest of their lives like we all do.
One of the greatest disappointments the faithful have endured waiting for their grand apocalypse occurred on October 22, 1844. William Miller, a Baptist preacher, led a large group of followers to believe that Daniel's cleansing of the sanctuary was to occur on that date.
I hope I don't need to explain it didn't happen.
Undaunted, Christians continued to look for the return of Jesus. An entire sect, the Seventh-Day Adventists, grew up over this failed prophecy. They revised Miller's prediction saying that October 22 was not yet Jesus' return but the beginning of the final atonement and the "cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary." This event leads up to the second coming of Christ.
So Jesus is still coming if never arriving. Other groups have been caught up in this expectation, and they just never give up believing that someday soon Jesus will come bursting through the clouds. No number of failed prophecies of the end seems to stop them in their expectation.
One of these other groups are the Jehovah's Witnesses led by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I was recently reading their book, Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand! As the title suggests, the return of Christ is at the very doorstep. I believe this book is no longer in print. Perhaps one of the reasons it is no longer published by the Watchtower is that it was copyrighted in 1988. As I write this post, it has been about thirty years since that time. Apparently thirty years is way too long to qualify as "at hand." To save face, the Watchtower no doubt pulled the book.
In any case, what I find odd about this book in particular is that the Watchtower bothered to copyright it. If Jesus and the apocalypse were nigh, then it seems to me that trivialities like reserving rights to a printed work would be a rather low priority. Did the Jehovah's Witnesses think that they might end up suing a plagiarizer in court as the "great tribulation" raged the four horsemen meting out plagues to punish the earth?
You just can't be too sure, I suppose.
There's nothing new about these failed prophecies. Other failed predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses involved dates of the second coming in the years 1878, 1881, 1914, 1918 and 1925. When Jesus failed to show, the "prophecies" were always reinterpreted to mean something different.
Observe that the knowledge of these failures won't sway many Jehovah's Witnesses from continuing to believe the end is nigh. Sure, some of them wise up and leave only to be branded as "apostates" and shunned by those who remain faithful to the Watchtower.
But don't get me wrong. I'm not just picking on Jehovah's Witnesses. We've had many prophecies from many Christians throughout their history. "They end is near!" The fact that they keep getting these predictions wrong doesn't stop them from continuing to believe what they do.
Will this apocalyptic delusion ever end?
Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand!
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Re: Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand!
Post #2Except that the book makes no date specfific predictions as to when that "climax" would be and that the Watchtower Society has recently made the book available in its entirety for free online line HEREJagella wrote:
One of these other groups are the Jehovah's Witnesses led by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I was recently reading their book, Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand! As the title suggests, the return of Christ is at the very doorstep. I believe this book is no longer in print. Perhaps one of the reasons it is no longer published by the Watchtower is that it was copyrighted in 1988. As I write this post, it has been about thirty years since that time. Apparently thirty years is way too long to qualify as "at hand." To save face, the Watchtower no doubt pulled the book.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/lv/r1/lp-e/0/56388
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/lv/r1/lp-e/0/56388
For those that are curious, its an illustrated verse by verse analysis of the book of Revelation, presenting the JWs interpretation of the texts. Even for those that don't agree with the interpretations, its worth getting hold of for the illustrations alone (which are fantastic). The book of Revelation is not an easy book to illustrate (unfortunately the online version doesn't contain the illustrations) but most are available online if you look hard enough.
We publish litererally thousands of books and booklets and cannot afford to keep them all permanently in publication forever (remember Jehovah's Witensses don't charge for our literature, we print them and give them away for free). This may be a consideration as to why a book published 40 years ago is no longer in print.
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Re: Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand!
Post #3Christianity has never haunted my dreams.Jagella wrote:
The Christian prophecies of "the end of the age" have been with us at least as long as Christianity has haunted our dreams with visions of strange beasts and the destruction or damnation of the majority of humankind.
Sure. Eventually humans will go extinct. Of course, Christianity may die out before that. In either case, this specific delusion will end.
Will this apocalyptic delusion ever end?
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Re: Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand!
Post #4While Jehovah's Witnesses live with future blessings close in mind, we still have to function in the present system. It is for this reason we take necessary precautions for our well being and continue to make plans within the framework of the present system for as long as it should last.Jagella wrote: what I find odd about this book in particular is that the Watchtower bothered to copyright it.
WHY COPYRIGHT?
The Watchtower Society is the largest publishing company on the planet. Like all publishers it copyrights the material it produces to protect the integrity of content and retain control as to who does what with what it produces. As a non-profit Corporation, copyright ensures that books and other material produced by the Society are not fraudulently sold to the public.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not view protecting our rights to be evidence of lack of faith.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand!
Post #5Yes, this is a basic Christian teaching. For Jehovah's Witnesses this "second coming" of Christ signifies, not the end of all human life on earth, or the wholesale destruction of the planet, but rather the selective destruction of the incorrigibly wicked, leaving the "meek [to] inherit the earth" as Jesus promised.Jagella wrote: Christians continued to look for the return of Jesus.
Thus the Messianic promises of peaceful life, good housing, perfect health and harmony with God will, Jehovah's Witnesses believe, at long last be accomplished. This is what Jehovah's Witnesses are announcing for the planet when we speak of "the end of the world system".
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand!
Post #6[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]
As for your debate question, I personally don't believe that the end of this present system of things is a "delusion" indeed the belief that God will eventually intervene and end Satan's world is quite a common theme in most religions. As for when this will happen, we have (like most religions) made some mistakes along the way. That is not something we hide nor is it unknown to the general public.
Jehovah's Witnesses remain confident that God's promises will come true one day and believe we are living in the what the bible calls "the end times" or "the last days" and have been since 1914.
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As for your debate question, I personally don't believe that the end of this present system of things is a "delusion" indeed the belief that God will eventually intervene and end Satan's world is quite a common theme in most religions. As for when this will happen, we have (like most religions) made some mistakes along the way. That is not something we hide nor is it unknown to the general public.
Jehovah's Witnesses remain confident that God's promises will come true one day and believe we are living in the what the bible calls "the end times" or "the last days" and have been since 1914.
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Is it possible to pinpoint exactly when this present system will be destroyed?
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What is the "generation" Jesus referred to?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 219#752219
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Post #7
NoWill this apocalyptic delusion ever end?
Some reasons:
'The end' will come eventually (nothing last forever including the universe) so that, at least, is a truism, in a way, about the prediction and believers can take comfort (such as it is) in that fact that they are technically correct (though many don't mind to be bothered with technicalities)- the universe will cease to exist at some point.
Unending hope that their belief is right is probably the strongest tether to this thinking, rather they admit it or not.
They see it as justice that they were right and everyone else was wrong. Most Christians, I believe personally, like to gloat and 'be right'. They are much more concerned about them being correct than others getting in to heaven and eternal life. So figuratively seeing them get in to heaven while others don't is appealing to them - especially to those who the vehemently dislike (hate maybe) because their lifestyles and beliefs don't coincide with their own.
They fear being wrong so they continue to look forward, literally, to the day when the world ends 'just like their bible said it would' (or at least, somewhat like it said it would).
If gives them something to rally around (like they need anything else really).
Some people like death and destruction (weirdly enough). The allure of their God being manifest in the sky while he rains down fire and brimstone on to 'the wicked' tickles their fancy.
A cataclysmic end to the world drives their need to cling to their god (out of fear not love or desire to serve him). It's a viscous circle that feeds itself.
It's genius really, if you think about it.
Again, simply my observations from decades of living it and dealing with them.
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Post #8
It reminds me of the joke:
How do you keep a sucker in suspense?
I'll tell you tomorrow.
How do you keep the religious coffers filled to the rim?
Tell them salvation is at hand... and could be tomorrow.
!!!
How do you keep a sucker in suspense?
I'll tell you tomorrow.
How do you keep the religious coffers filled to the rim?
Tell them salvation is at hand... and could be tomorrow.
!!!
Re: Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand!
Post #9[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]
Anyway, specific dates are falsifiable and should be avoided when proclaiming a prophecy. If a specific date does fail, then it's not the end of the world! (pun intended) Just "reinterpret" the prophecy.
Another thing about this book is that it equates "Christendom" with the whore of Babylon. To Jehovah's Witnesses, all other Christian groups are Satanic.
Isn't that strange? The Jehovah's Witnesses hate Christianity more than I do.
Well, at this point we know that in Watchtower-speak "at hand" means 30+ years.Except that the book makes no date specfific predictions as to when that "climax" would be...
Anyway, specific dates are falsifiable and should be avoided when proclaiming a prophecy. If a specific date does fail, then it's not the end of the world! (pun intended) Just "reinterpret" the prophecy.
Thanks for that link. I tried the JW.org website, but I couldn't find the book....and that the Watchtower Society has recently made the book available in its entirety for free online line HERE
Well, I'd describe the illustrations as what you might expect in an elementary-school text. The illustration on page 127 depicts a city burning in the background while the Jehovah's Witnesses, grinning ear-to-ear, happily parade from the death and destruction they leave behind. Frankly, to celebrate such horror is quite sick.For those that are curious, its an illustrated verse by verse analysis of the book of Revelation, presenting the JWs interpretation of the texts. Even for those that don't agree with the interpretations, its worth getting hold of for the illustrations alone (which are fantastic).
Another thing about this book is that it equates "Christendom" with the whore of Babylon. To Jehovah's Witnesses, all other Christian groups are Satanic.
Isn't that strange? The Jehovah's Witnesses hate Christianity more than I do.
But what about that "at hand" business? It does seem to detract a bit from a prophecy of impending doom only to hedge your bets by posting a copyright notice in that same book.While Jehovah's Witnesses live with future blessings close in mind, we still have to function in the present system. It is for this reason we take necessary precautions for our well being and continue to make plans within the framework of the present system for as long as it should last.
Sure--just in case Revelation's grand climax isn't really at hand.As a non-profit Corporation, copyright ensures that books and other material produced by the Society are not fraudulently sold to the public.
So Jehovah cannot be relied upon to protect your rights? He's too busy setting up the apocalypse to bother with such trivial matters.Jehovah's Witnesses do not view protecting our rights to be evidence of lack of faith.
Hmmm. It sounds like 9/11 on a global scale. The pilots who flew planes into the WTC saw their work the same way. They sought to destroy the "incorrigibly wicked" too.Yes, this is a basic Christian teaching. For Jehovah's Witnesses this "second coming" of Christ signifies, not the end of all human life on earth, or the wholesale destruction of the planet, but rather the selective destruction of the incorrigibly wicked, leaving the "meek [to] inherit the earth" as Jesus promised.
I prefer the present "system of things." It has the advantage of not requiring the deaths of billions of the world's people.Thus the Messianic promises of peaceful life, good housing, perfect health and harmony with God will, Jehovah's Witnesses believe, at long last be accomplished. This is what Jehovah's Witnesses are announcing for the planet when we speak of "the end of the world system".
Well, those other religions are wrong too. Incorrigibly deluded. Immune to correction.I personally don't believe that the end of this present system of things is a "delusion" indeed the belief that God will eventually intervene and end Satan's world is quite a common theme in most religions.
My prophecy is that it will never happen.As for when this will happen...
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Re: Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand!
Post #10[Replying to post 9 by Jagella]
HARMAGEDDON QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FROM A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS POINT OF VIEW
The word "Harmageddon" (Armageddon) is mentioned uniquely in the book of Revelation. Although many have adopted the biblical term to mean total world destruction, in the bible it is not presented as such. Rather it refers to the world situation when God finally rids the earth of Satan and all that support him, vindicating His (YHWH/JEHOVAH)s name.
QUESTION: Who destroys the wicked?
JEHOVAHS WITNESS
FURTHER READING:
What is the battle of Harmageddon?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... rmageddon/
HARMAGEDDON QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FROM A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS POINT OF VIEW
The word "Harmageddon" (Armageddon) is mentioned uniquely in the book of Revelation. Although many have adopted the biblical term to mean total world destruction, in the bible it is not presented as such. Rather it refers to the world situation when God finally rids the earth of Satan and all that support him, vindicating His (YHWH/JEHOVAH)s name.
QUESTION: Who destroys the wicked?
- The destruction of the wicked is God's war, and it is Jesus and the angelic forces that fight it. The Chief enemy is Satan and the demonic forces that he leads and any humans Almighty God judges as unworthy of future life.
- No, absolutely not! Jehovah's Witnesses are known worldwide for being politically neutral and non-violent. It is a matter of historical record they never take up arms or engage in any violent struggles. Unlike Islamic extremists who justify the taking of life by rationalising God is using them to execute the "infidels" Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus himself will fight the wicked in his due time, and that Christians must NEVER engage in any kind of violent acts for whatever reason
- No, this is a common misconception but not what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Not only is being a baptised Jehovah's Witness in itself no guarantee of surviving Harmageddon, Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach only those that belong to our organization will survive. We believe each person alive on the planet will be judge individually and there may well be many millions (or more) that God deems will conform to his will when suitably educated. We do believe our religion will be the only organization that will survive and that being part of it is putting oneself in the safest place possible, but how many non-witnesse but sincere honest hearted people will survive Harmageddon is not our place to say. That we believe that remains in the hands of Almighty God. God will only destroy those he judges as "incorrigibly wicked".
- We simply do not know how many people will be judged as "wicked" and killed off by God at Harmageddon. The bible book of Revelation paints a dramatic picture of that period with many striking images and it should be noted that Jesus himself compared it to the flood of Noah's day and that only 8 people survived that destruction. It should be noted however that Jesus will judge people individualy according to their deeds and nobody will be killed "accidentally" (as in present day wars) or written off as "collateral damage" and importantly there will be survivors.
SURVIORS OF HARMAGEDDON
NOTE: All illustrations in the book "Revelation its Grand Climax at hand" (available for free online), are artists impressions of the scriptures in Revelation (albeit JWs interpretation) not independently invented theology.
The book of Revelation speaks of "a great crowd" containing individuals from all nationalities and language groups coming out (surviving) a epic destruction (Harmageddon). The bible book of Revelation depicts this group as rejoicing, not because others have died but because they have survived and are happy to be moving towards the blessings survivors are promised.
It is the bible, not Jehovah's Witnesses that presents the image of survivors of a great destruction singing praises for surviving the "great tribulation" . Relief, joy and gratitude to rescue workers are normal human reactions for those coming through life threatening situations.To illustrate: Rescue workers and fellow survivors are often be seen cheerin and celebrating when a survivor is located and dragged from the rubble after an earthquake. Is their happiness "a sick celebration of the horror" of the earthquake or rather a celebration of the gift of life preserved after much effort?
- No. The bible is quite clear on this, Jehovah (YHWH) explicitly states in scripture that He "takes no delight in the death of someone wicked" and neither do Jehovah's Witnesses. Indeed part of their commission is to educate people as to how they can survive Harmageddon and they (JWs) spend many billions of hours at their own expense in their public witnessing work, which they believe is helping people put themselves in line for Salvation. We love people, all people, even our enemies and do not delight in the prospect of anyone's death.
While we are saddened by the prospect that many will reject the warning signs of coming destruction, and refuse to change their behaviour, we rejoice that this our planet earth will one day soon be free of unrepentant child abusers, rapists, greedy, violent war mongerers and all those that have oppressed and exploited causing untold suffering for thousands of years. The desire for justice is part of human nature and Harmageddon is the moment, long awaited when universal justice is rendered on behalf of the innocent.
JEHOVAHS WITNESS
FURTHER READING:
What is the battle of Harmageddon?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... rmageddon/
*The Return of ChristTo learn more please go to other posts related to...
SATAN THE DEVIL , , THE SECOND COMING * and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8