Who wrote the Gospels?

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Sat May 12, 2018 3:27 pm

Probably Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John... Peter probably wrote one too... He certainly wrote other Epistles. Likely? That he wrote about his experiences with Jesus in a Gospel? Very likely.

There very may be many more authentic Gospels in existence. We probably dont even know the half of the amount of documents that are written about Jesus.. But there are hundreds... And probably hundreds more...

How likely is it for Mark, Matthew, Luke, actually existing? Like real people? Its very likely....

How likely is it that at least some of these books where in collaboration with eyewitnesses testimony? Very likely

Far as im concerned, the best history we can research is the history of the Church and the Temple. The Jewish Temple all the way down to Jesus, and Jesus all the way up to our church today. Beginning right from its base... Jesus, and the Disciples, all the way up the line. Maybe some of the best history you can research

In fact, im going to Rome, in 3 Weeks, did you know the Church goes back to the First Century? It is the Vatican, it was biult on Peters Grave... It exists

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 21, 2018 7:26 pm

[Replying to post 70 by Tart]

Well, there you are, you have answered your own question:
If they existed, IF THEY EVER EXISTED, they would be prized possessions, in museums.

The wisdom Lazarus would have passed down to us would be resounding.

But you can't show things that don't exist.
There are no works of a man who doesn't exist.
There is no wisdom from a man who did not return from the dead.

However, these things must exist if the NT were true.
But since they don't, it isn't.

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 21, 2018 7:37 pm

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 70 by Tart]

Well, there you are, you have answered your own question:
If they existed, IF THEY EVER EXISTED, they would be prized possessions, in museums.

The wisdom Lazarus would have passed down to us would be resounding.

But you can't show things that don't exist.
There are no works of a man who doesn't exist.
There is no wisdom from a man who did not return from the dead.

However, these things must exist if the NT were true.
But since they don't, it isn't.

Ok, you are not answering my question... We have books, of miraculous testimony, that spread all over the world... But you dont believe them...

What difference would a book from Lazarus be? And how would we prove that to you?

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 21, 2018 8:08 pm

[Replying to post 72 by Tart]

I have already explained what the difference is - one promises hope and dreams, and could say anything. The Book of Lazarus has necessary existence, yet it does not exist, it would tell us something profound, but doesn't.

It is the one Book, that if it did exist, one wouldn't be able to summarily dismiss the myth.
But since such a profound work doesn't, yet should, exist, one can ignore all the other Books.

How could you prove it/them?
The same way you would prove anything.
Show me a museum display.
Provide me a link to the Book of Lazarus, or his interviews with kings and philosophers. Some of his select writings - but especially those telling us Lazarus' personal experience with death and resurrection.

jgh7 · Post by **jgh7** » Mon May 21, 2018 8:15 pm

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 72 by Tart]

I have already explained what the difference is - one promises hope and dreams, and could say anything. The Book of Lazarus has necessary existence, yet it does not exist, it would tell us something profound, but doesn't.

It is the one Book, that if it did exist, one wouldn't be able to summarily dismiss the myth.
But since such a profound work doesn't, yet should, exist, one can ignore all the other Books.

How could you prove it/them?
The same way you would prove anything.
Show me a museum display.
Provide me a link to the Book of Lazarus, or his interviews with kings and philosophers. Some of his select writings - but especially those telling us Lazarus' personal experience with death and resurrection.

Not to be nitpicky, but there's no guarantee it would be a profound experience of Lazarus from his time dead to when he was resurrected. It could have been just like waking up from a coma where the lights were out and then they turned back on.

But if such a book existed (whether profound or not) and was preserved, wouldn't you have the same suspicions that it was just made up?

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 21, 2018 8:42 pm

[Replying to post 74 by jgh7]

What if?
If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.

I guess I respond with:
Useless is as useless does. A coma is not an answer that would generate converts.

But to answer the question for the FOURTH time:
The point is that it does not exist and absolutely should exist.

It doesn't matter what it might have said. The other books don't have to have any grip in reality.
Lazarus, surviving Jesus, should have been celebrated nearly as much.

But if such a book existed (whether profound or not) and was preserved, wouldn't you have the same suspicions that it was just made up?

Yes, I would. But since it doesn't exist, it absolutely proves the entire story is only a myth.

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 21, 2018 9:49 pm

Ok... So Christianity is a myth, unless Lazarus said otherwise, in which case Christianity would still be a myth...

The truth is, is that Christianity has testimony of this exact kind of miraculous claims, from multiple sources... Paul, Peter, James, John, etc... So if we had it from Lazarus, it would just be another name in the list that you dont believe..

I mean, we have this exact thing from Paul... Paul wrote books about his claims of Jesus as the Messiah, which people interrogated him from, in multiple courts, that is now spread across the globe... Which we even have archaeological evidence for... But you dont even believe Paul existed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_Inscription

The things you are asking for, that you wouldnt believe anyways, we have them...

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:12 pm

[Replying to post 76 by Tart]

No-k.
But I see what you tried to do there.
If Lazarus said something profound, I might be convinced, since it doesn't exist, who can say. Were it true, the entire world might be devout. If wishes were horses...
Were the story true, Lazarus should have been the most celebrated man after Jesus. With tours and interviews and proponents and detractors. Dissertations, tabloids, quotations, biographers, and so on.

My point isn't your syllogism, but this observation.

There is no testimony of Lazarus, there is no debate over Lazarus' experiences.
Since there is no testimony of Lazarus, there was no Lazarus.
No Lazarus, no Jesus, son of God.

His is the only real record of Jesus time on Earth that is reasonable and expected to be documented, but it is not.

Apologies to other readers to have to explain this a fifth time.

rikuoamero · Post by **rikuoamero** » Tue May 22, 2018 3:57 am

[Replying to post 76 by Tart]

But you dont even believe Paul existed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_Inscription

I'm pretty darn sure I've corrected you over the Delphi inscription before. Didn't I point out to you before that it mentions Proconsul Gallio and NOT Paul? Why use it as evidence for Paul when it makes no mention of Paul?

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Tue May 22, 2018 12:41 pm

[Replying to post 78 by rikuoamero]

Thanks, I still have no idea what point was trying to be made with Paul. If I accept for the sake of argument there was a person who ate, drank and wrote a book (letters), and named Paul, then that still doesn't do anything to dismiss Lazarus' lack of testimony, biography and history. It's a red herring.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue May 22, 2018 1:25 pm

jgh7 wrote: Not to be nitpicky, but there's no guarantee it would be a profound experience of Lazarus from his time dead to when he was resurrected. It could have been just like waking up from a coma where the lights were out and then they turned back on.

But if such a book existed (whether profound or not) and was preserved, wouldn't you have the same suspicions that it was just made up?

Indeed, since the bible says the dead know nothing at all, there is the distinct possibility that if LAZARUS had written a book it would be a very short one

"Well, I remember feeling very sick, I remember coughing a lot and then everything went dark...

Next thing I knew I was in some kind of a cave but I heard someone calling my name and telling me to "come on out". I seemed to be covered in some sort of material but I stumbled towards the voice and when I got outside all my friends and family were looking at me funny.

I think someone fainted"

THE END