About the Trinity Idea...

[William]

...I was thinking the other day how one can blaspheme both the Father and the Son and be forgiven, but one cannot be forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

If that were the case, how can the three be one and the same?

[ttruscott]

...I was thinking the other day how one can blaspheme both the Father and the Son and be forgiven, but one cannot be forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

If that were the case, how can the three be one and the same?

They are not one and the same; they are three separate divine Persons who experience their divinity as a perfect Unity expressed as GOD is One.

[Overcomer]

The Trinity is defined as one God who exists in three persons. While they are one in essence, each person has an individual consciousness and a different role. The Holy Spirit's role is to draw sinners to Christ. If one spurns his call, then one remains separated from God.

Put another way, the Holy Spirit offers forgiveness of sins, but if people reject that forgiveness, then they remain unforgiven. Rejecting the Holy Spirit as he performs this function represents the only unforgivable sin.

See here:

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/be ... the-spirit

[William]

[Replying to post 2 by ttruscott]

They are not one and the same; they are three separate divine Persons who experience their divinity as a perfect Unity expressed as GOD is One.

Well in that I still don't see an answer to my question. If they are 3 separate entities perfectly united and altogether one GOD, how one can blaspheme both the Father and the Son and be forgiven, but one cannot be forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Ghost?

[marco]

...I was thinking the other day how one can blaspheme both the Father and the Son and be forgiven, but one cannot be forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

If that were the case, how can the three be one and the same?

Terror is a wonderful persuader. Muslims must worry about having their flesh burned eternally when they die and if we are to accept the reported statement of Christ then we subject ourselves to the same fear. Obviously the Holy Spirit isn't the next door neighbour and so if people doubt his existence and question his benefits then that is part of human enquiry and deduction. It is absurd to label such meditations "unforgivable." Christ from time to time used language dramatically - "before Abraham was, I am" - and so perhaps he was indulging in another blast of hyperbole. It is certainly effective. Or, more likely, he was misquoted.

[TSGracchus]

The doctrine of the "Trinity' was a compromise, in an irreconcilable disagreement over the nature of Jesus and divinity. It was just a "mystery" and you would believe it ... or else.

"Don't you dare to doubt. Skepticism is unforgivable. No matter how nonsensical, you will believe what you are told to believe, just like we believe or you will suffer eternal torment."

There is the line clearly drawn. Will you exercise your own judgment or not?

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.� ― Françoise-Marie Arouet, (Voltaire), Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de M. de Voltaire

You are not to be trusted with your own mind. You must drink the kool-aid. They aren't actually allowed to burn you anymore, but they can still threaten you with fire. You can trust these preachers, priests, prophets and popes, or you can do your best according to your own reason and trust in whatever god may be.

Think! They threaten you and try to bribe you. They tell you to obey. They know exactly what God wants, which just happens to be exactly what they want: Unquestioning obedience.

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." --- Ephesians 6:5 NIV

"Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." 1 Peter 2:18 NIV

"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them,..." --- Titus 2:9 NIV

And be sure to drop money in the collection plate. God needs money, because the preacher needs a new 7 foot flat screen.

[DPMartin]

...I was thinking the other day how one can blaspheme both the Father and the Son and be forgiven, but one cannot be forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

If that were the case, how can the three be one and the same?

according to Jesus God is Spirit therefore the Holy Spirit is God's Presence just as your body is your presence in the earth, because we are flesh when born into the world.

hence some one can reject that there is a God (like most atheists do) or what God says (Jesus being the Word of God) but reject His Presence should that come to pass with someone will not be forgiven. should God reveal that He is, and that person reject Him, it will not be forgiven, and that person will be treated the same when the time comes.


what most don't understand about the Three are One is that it is like the lives He has created. there is the life, the expression of that life that communicates to other lives in its presence, and the presence of that life in the earth, but in God's case, in Heaven. there is God (the Power), His Word, and His Presence (Holy Spirit)

now what "Trinity Theology" says is probably different which is probably why those who claim "Trinity Theology" to be true (like the catholic church) can't explain how the three are One.

but the three are the first thing said about God in scripture in the first few verses. God created, (the Power) the God's Spirit moves over the waters (hence His Presence) is now in His creation, then He speaks and it is done ( fulfillment of the Power in His Word) according to His satisfaction (He sees that it is good). the Creator and Judge.


thing is whether it be the Power, the Word, or the Presence of God, it is God to anything not God.

[ttruscott]

Pre-Conception Theology contends that the sin that made Satan and his angels condemned, ie unforgivable, was to put their faith in YHWH being a false god and a liar and rejecting HIS promises of election and salvation for all who put their faith in HIM as their GOD as more lies.

Whether this is the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit or whether that sin is a strictly human sin of putting ones's faith in the idea that Jesus did His miracles by the power of Satan is the blasphemy, I do not know, it is not written.

But if it is the strictly a human blasphemy then I contend that it does not cause the unforgiveness but rather proves the unforgiveness of their having made themselves to be eternally evil and so are condemned already.

As for all of the various differentiation of the work each of the Divine Persons does and is responsible for and why the Holy Spirit is the One whose blasphemy is unforgivable is a matter of ignorance, not of logical fallacy as you suggest.

[ttruscott]

now what "Trinity Theology" says is probably different which is probably why those who claim "Trinity Theology" to be true (like the catholic church) can't explain how the three are One.

The Trinity is a Divine Unity, `echad for which the fleshly unity, `echad, of a man and woman having sex is a metaphor.

It is the characteristics of being a Divine Person that makes the Divine Unity so perfect it is correct to call the unity ONE GOD, not three Gods.

[William]

[Replying to post 3 by Overcomer]

The Trinity is defined as one God who exists in three persons. While they are one in essence, each person has an individual consciousness and a different role. The Holy Spirit's role is to draw sinners to Christ. If one spurns his call, then one remains separated from God.

Perhaps you can define the other two roles for the reader.

Put another way, the Holy Spirit offers forgiveness of sins, but if people reject that forgiveness, then they remain unforgiven. Rejecting the Holy Spirit as he performs this function represents the only unforgivable sin.

So you are saying that the dogma claims that those who reject the offer of forgiveness of sins, then they are committing an unforgivable sin.
Having checked out the link you provided I discover a medium telling the reader what he thinks is an unforgivable sin - what he believes is a sin against the Holy Ghost. I found it to be rather dubious.

As a side question, why are you referring to the Holy Ghost as having gender? Is it because the medium you linked me to, does this? And if one must do so, why a masculine gender? Wouldn't it be more reasonable that if their is a Father and a Son that there would be a Mother as well?